Ubuntu 19.10 To Drop 32-bit x86 Packages

[Raka555]

It is not that simple. If your software contains a JavaScript JIT or does other fancy things then recompiling is not enough. Instead, a major porting effort is required.

That example is meant for people with their own code.

Most people wont even be able to successfully compile a JavaScript JIT even on plain i386 or x86_64 ...
(Probably some automake macro's thats not defined )
(Or if it uses meson, the wrong version of python would be installed...)

[L_A_G]

A lot of complaining about this, but no suggestions as to how to phase out i386 in a better way.

The reality is that i386 needed to be phased out sooner or later and the only thing achieved by putting it off is to increase the amount of i386 and i386-reliant software out there to cause issues when the inevitable architecture drop has to be gone trough with. While some people may resent this analogy, I think a good analogy is the amputation of a gangrenous bit of you. The longer you put it off the further the gangrene will spread and the more you end up having to lop off when you are able to gather up the nerve to actually go trough with it.

Being someone who mostly uses the latest LTS Ubuntu with a mainline kernel I was thinking about switching to Clear Linux if Canonical doesn't go trough with this by 20.04, but that seems to be unnecessary now.

[birdie]

Go x32 then.

The Linux kernel has dropped x32 support. There are no x32 distros. And I'm not in a mood of compiling everything and keeping it up to date.

Which leaves us with you who tells people whose lives depend on 32bit x86 to go f themselves. No, please, you can start with yourself.

And also I don't give a damn about Ubuntu/Debian. Never used them, never will. The deb packaging format is a freaking abomination, dpkg is Scheiße and apt must die and nothing will make me change my mind.

So go eat your Ubuntu Scheiße and be happy, while the rest of us will enjoy i686 for many years to come.

I agree. This should never have happened, instead Steam should have shipped a 64-bit client and insisted on all Linux games being 64-bit right from the start.

You see, you're obsessed with being a x86-64 only open source fan attic who couldn't care less about anyone else while other people need to have their work done using the instruments at their disposal and also some people actually love to earn money. Hundreds of thousands of people still have i686 systems where they are successfully running Steam. By releasing Steam only for the x86-64 platform Valve would have robbed themselves of a lot of profits.

A lot of complaining about this, but no suggestions as to how to phase out i386 in a better way.

The reality is that i386 needed to be phased out sooner or later and the only thing achieved by putting it off is to increase the amount of i386 and i386-reliant software out there to cause issues when the inevitable architecture drop has to be gone trough with. While some people may resent this analogy, I think a good analogy is the amputation of a gangrenous bit of you. The longer you put it off the further the gangrene will spread and the more you end up having to lop off when you are able to gather up the nerve to actually go trough with it.

Being someone who mostly uses the latest LTS Ubuntu with a mainline kernel I was thinking about switching to Clear Linux if Canonical doesn't go trough with this by 20.04, but that seems to be unnecessary now.

Why should it phased out? Freaking why? Right freaking now you can use most Linux distros without having a single i686 library. Why do you think you're entitled to decide for others what they should and shouldn't use? I use Wine i686 daily because I cannot live without certain Windows only i686 applications. I also have a ton of 32bit only closed source Linux applications which I love to use.

[brent]

A lot of complaining about this, but no suggestions as to how to phase out i386 in a better way.

That's simply not true! There are several suggestions. I already suggested something more sane in this very thread: Ubuntu can drop application packages and the like and only ship a set of essential i386 libraries. That would mean maybe 200-300 packages instead of thousands of packages, greatly reducing maintenance burden.

[skeevy420]

That's simply not true! There are several suggestions. I already suggested something more sane in this very thread: Ubuntu can drop application packages and the like and only ship a set of essential i386 libraries. That would mean maybe 200-300 packages instead of thousands of packages, greatly reducing maintenance burden.

Exactly. There's the Ubuntu solutions of containerize a 32bit OS, use a 32bit chroot, or compile what you need and roll your own setup; various Phoronix solutions like yours of keeping essential libraries, my idea of a Wine styled project for Linux, simply using a distribution with proper 32bit/multiarch support...

What I don't really get is that they're a Debian fork and Debian isn't dropping 32bit and/or multiarch support anytime soon so why is Ubuntu? Ease-of-development is one of their reasons but that doesn't seem to align when they're going to change that much from Debian.

I just realized something very important -- This change also means that ole debianxfce won't be able to use Ubuntu PPAs anymore since Debian Testing will be multiarch and the PPA won't be. Looks like someone will have to start rolling more software than an AMD kernel and "waste his time like stupid Arch users". That alone make me support this endeavor.

[L_A_G]

That's simply not true! There are several suggestions. I already suggested something more sane in this very thread: Ubuntu can drop application packages and the like and only ship a set of essential i386 libraries. That would mean maybe 200-300 packages instead of thousands of packages, greatly reducing maintenance burden.

That's not actually dropping i386 in case you don't realize it. When you offer i386 libraries by default developers are just going to continue shipping applications that rely on them and it's just going to continue to make things worse for when the real i386 drop, where the libraries are made optional or removed from official repos entirely, is going to happen.

Suggestions like this remind me of how the cheap old people who live in the same apartment complex that I do kept putting off major renovations for years and years, instead choosing to have the building maintenance company just patch up the old infrastructure up until a really extensive renovation simply had to be carried out. They then complained about the cost when the badly degraded state of particularly the plumbing ruled out more cost-effective methods. It got to the point where they got genuinely angry when an independent expert who had worked on elevators for almost 40 years was brought om to look at the elevators and concluded that the elevators weren't just at the end of their usable lifespan, they were at least a decade past it and thus the only option was a complete replacement.

Moral of the story is that when you have to do something painful, but inevitable, the only thing you achieve by putting it off is to make it all worse.

[Weasel]

That's not actually dropping i386 in case you don't realize it. When you offer i386 libraries by default developers are just going to continue shipping applications that rely on them and it's just going to continue to make things worse for when the real i386 drop, where the libraries are made optional or removed from official repos entirely, is going to happen.

Suggestions like this remind me of how the cheap old people who live in the same apartment complex that I do kept putting off major renovations for years and years, instead choosing to have the building maintenance company just patch up the old infrastructure up until a really extensive renovation simply had to be carried out. They then complained about the cost when the badly degraded state of particularly the plumbing ruled out more cost-effective methods. It got to the point where they got genuinely angry when an independent expert who had worked on elevators for almost 40 years was brought om to look at the elevators and concluded that the elevators weren't just at the end of their usable lifespan, they were at least a decade past it and thus the only option was a complete replacement.

Moral of the story is that when you have to do something painful, but inevitable, the only thing you achieve by putting it off is to make it all worse.

Retarded analogy. Software (and games) doesn't have a "lifespan", just as old movies don't have a "lifespan". This is as retarded dropping support for reading mp3 files because it's an "old" format. Get over it.

[Raka555]

Well there is aarch64-ilp32, which enjoys the same support as x32...

Thanks for this.

[brent]

That's not actually dropping i386 in case you don't realize it.

Well, yeah. The alternative to dropping i386 is of course to not drop it completely. What did you expect? Canonical says i386 is a maintenance burden. My suggestion addresses this. It might even be possible to agree on a really small set of core libraries. Could be less than 100 packages. I can't imagine that would be a serious burden, particularly because Ubuntu is standing on the shoulders of giants, namely Debian.

When you offer i386 libraries by default developers are just going to continue shipping applications that rely on them and it's just going to continue to make things worse for when the real i386 drop, where the libraries are made optional or removed from official repos entirely, is going to happen.

I don't agree. This would prepare developers for the end of i386. If you just ship a small set of libraries, it will force developers to ship non-core libraries themselves, which is a good preparation step for a full drop possibly some years later. It also signals clearly to developers that the end of support is coming.

Ubuntu's current plan is simply throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Lots of people might migrate to something else, especially commercial, possibly paying customers.

[skeevy420]

That's not actually dropping i386 in case you don't realize it. When you offer i386 libraries by default developers are just going to continue shipping applications that rely on them and it's just going to continue to make things worse for when the real i386 drop, where the libraries are made optional or removed from official repos entirely, is going to happen.

Suggestions like this remind me of how the cheap old people who live in the same apartment complex that I do kept putting off major renovations for years and years, instead choosing to have the building maintenance company just patch up the old infrastructure up until a really extensive renovation simply had to be carried out. They then complained about the cost when the badly degraded state of particularly the plumbing ruled out more cost-effective methods. It got to the point where they got genuinely angry when an independent expert who had worked on elevators for almost 40 years was brought om to look at the elevators and concluded that the elevators weren't just at the end of their usable lifespan, they were at least a decade past it and thus the only option was a complete replacement.

Moral of the story is that when you have to do something painful, but inevitable, the only thing you achieve by putting it off is to make it all worse.

That's because only a moron fixes someone else's property for them when they rent. If you rent, it's the landlord's responsibility to fix stuff that breaks or needs repair. The only exception is when you can use maintenance receipts to knock money off the rent and/or utilities depending on the situation and then you better make sure you have all of it in writing so they don't "forget" after you spend $2.5K in repairs & renovation (happened to one of my Dad's friends in the early 90s). If the landlord is lazy, cheap, or refuses to do repairs you get the city or county involved (at least in America) where you'll be educated in code compliance and will find out if local ordinances force repairs or if you're fucked and should move to a better place.

That analogy only works if they're buying or owning a place to live, leasing property w/o a warranty, and other similar situations.