Linux Patch Sparks Differing Views Over External Monitor Handling With iGPU vs. dGPU

[AHSauge]

This is not an NVIDIA driver issue but it surely looks like you've skipped the most important parts and found your confirmation bias.

The issue starts with "I'm using the close sourced NVIDIA driver" and I'm fairly sure this is not an NVIDIA employee. Hence, why on earth does this Karen think they should report the issue to the kernel devs.? Report to NVIDIA and let NVIDIA deal with it. Not much more to discuss there really.

[user1]

As for the breaking in userspace on desktop, I'm sure it also happens on Windows.
The windows update has bricked my computer by fucking up its own Windows bootloader.

My friends also experienced this from time to time due to windows update.

When I say breakages, I mean the ones that are caused by a change in a system component or dependency. Basically the ones that cause something to stop working, if that's more clear.

Regarding Windows update, yeah. Windows update and the way drivers are delivered on Windows are a huge ffing mess and the 2 things I hate the most about Windows. I can write a novel about why the way drivers are delivered on Windows is so bad. For example, there is a chance something will go bad if you don't cleanly uninstall your current version of a graphics driver before updating to a newer version. And this is why I actually like the upstream Linux driver model and hope that in the future Nvidia and others that still use out of tree modules, will switch to this model.

[user1]

If you feel like Windows is stable and bug free, I'm very interested in knowing which version and build number you're using, because that would make my work life so much better.

My experience is that Windows is only stable-ish if you wait as long as possible with applying updates. Due to cutbacks in QA resources in Microsoft, the quality on what they deliver is quite visibly worse than before. Here is an ex-employee talking about it.

I didn't talk about the stability/bugginess of Windows. (read my last reply)

[birdie]

The issue starts with "I'm using the close sourced NVIDIA driver" and I'm fairly sure this is not an NVIDIA employee. Hence, why on earth does this Karen think they should report the issue to the kernel devs.? Report to NVIDIA and let NVIDIA deal with it. Not much more to discuss there really.

1. Can you read?
2. Can you read?
3. Seriously, can you read?

The third link in my comment is an issue in NVIDIA's github bug tracker.

Scroll down a a bit and you'll find:

aaronp24 commented 13 days ago
Thanks for confirming. We'll continue investigating, but that behavior of the upstream kernel doesn't seem right and sounds like it wasn't intentional.

I trust Aaron Plattner, a lead NVIDIA Linux engineer for almost two decades who have contributed to to numerous Open Source projects, a whole lot more than the opinion of an absolute entitled no one on Phoronix.

[birdie]

Just like 25 years one of the biggest issues of Open Source/Linux in particular remains its users and some developers who are full of zealotry, "my way or the highway". A nice way to alienate both new users and developers since once they get a taste of it, they return to places where people have basic respect. Meanwhile for the past 25 years Linux still hasn't gained a single percent market share on the desktop and AAA games ports have all but completely ceased.

[NobodyXu]

When I say breakages, I mean the ones that are caused by a change in a system component or dependency. Basically the ones that cause something to stop working, if that's more clear.

Regarding Windows update, yeah. Windows update and the way drivers are delivered on Windows are a huge ffing mess and the 2 things I hate the most about Windows. I can write a novel about why the way drivers are delivered on Windows is so bad. For example, there is a chance something will go bad if you don't cleanly uninstall your current version of a graphics driver before updating to a newer version. And this is why I actually like the upstream Linux driver model and hope that in the future Nvidia and others that still use out of tree modules, will switch to this model.

Hmmm, that will definitely depends on which distro you are using.
For debian/ubuntu/centos, my experience with them is that they are stable but old and most of the time updating don't break anything, though TBF, I haven't use desktop debian/ubuntu/centos for a long time.

Before switching to macbook air, I was using gentoo and it was a lot of fun using that distro.
A lot of features that I can configure and I can also pick the cflags.
The experience with it is mostly ok, except for swaywm constantly breaking on nvidia software, even when using noveau.

[AHSauge]

I didn't talk about the stability/bugginess of Windows. (read my last reply)

No, my comment still stands. You have fun stuff like KB4532693 that deletes user data out of nowhere. That's effectively a change in how user folders are handled, or more precisely a hidden clean-up of something that should have been migrated already. Not clearly communicated and certainly not well tested. That's what you risk getting from MS these days. I can't be bothered with finding an article on it now, but a while back changes in Windows Search also broke part of Outlook. So there certainly are issues on Windows when it comes to dependencies and broken interfaces. Depending on what you run and how long you wait with applying updates, you may or may not be seeing these issues in practice.

[NobodyXu]

Just like 25 years one of the biggest issues of Open Source/Linux in particular remains its users and some developers who are full of zealotry, "my way or the highway". A nice way to alienate both new users and developers since once they get a taste of it, they return to places where people have basic respect. Meanwhile for the past 25 years Linux still hasn't gained a single percent market share on the desktop and AAA games ports have all but completely ceased.

Seriously, Linux kernel only guarantees the stability of the syscall, not its internal APIs.
This is not to alienate anyone, but this is how software dev works.
You set up a scope, define what is the public API/ABI and which part you want to keep stable.

The only way to fix this is to upstream the nvidia driver.

[AHSauge]

1. Can you read?
2. Can you read?
3. Seriously, can you read?

The third link in my comment is an issue in NVIDIA's github bug tracker.

Scroll down a a bit and you'll find:

aaronp24 commented 13 days ago
Thanks for confirming. We'll continue investigating, but that behavior of the upstream kernel doesn't seem right and sounds like it wasn't intentional.

I trust Aaron Plattner, a lead NVIDIA Linux engineer for almost two decades who have contributed to to numerous Open Source projects, a whole lot more than the opinion of an absolute entitled no one on Phoronix.

Yes, I can read. I'm specifically referring to https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=216303 and the behaviour of whoever "reserv0" is.

At no point have I said that there isn't a bug here. All I've been saying is that this should be reported to NVIDIA and then they can figure out what's going on. At no point have I said that it doesn't mean some NVIDIA person makes an issue for the kernel devs. to fix. Basically what I'm getting at is that clueless end users being rude, entitled Karens doesn't help the situation, and it certainly doesn't motivate anyone to speed up the fix of this issue.

[user1]

No, my comment still stands. You have fun stuff like KB4532693 that deletes user data out of nowhere. That's effectively a change in how user folders are handled, or more precisely a hidden clean-up of something that should have been migrated already. Not clearly communicated and certainly not well tested. That's what you risk getting from MS these days. I can't be bothered with finding an article on it now, but a while back changes in Windows Search also broke part of Outlook. So there certainly are issues on Windows when it comes to dependencies and broken interfaces. Depending on what you run and how long you wait with applying updates, you may or may not be seeing these issues in practice.

I know about all the WIndows shenanigans as well, but have you ever heard about a case when Windows software suddenly stopped working because Windows changed something in its component/dependency? I didn't. That's what I was talking about. Don't know about that search breaking outlook story, they're both Microsoft products, hence they might work tightly together, but I never heard about something that just breaks third party software.