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The Future of Compiz In Question

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  • #71
    Originally posted by energyman View Post
    of course qwould it increase the workload! People would have to KNOW and USE TWO languages to do, what they can do with ONE at the moment. They would have to READ two languages, UNDERSTAND pretty complex code in TWO languages. At the end: much more work for NOTHING.

    For a given task X, it almost always takes less time to implement it just as efficiently in C++ than in C. Besides, there exist developers who are put off by the restriction to just C in the current Compiz, and might consider contributing if it used C++ (I'm such a developer, btw).

    Originally posted by energyman View Post
    So would you please come out of your little fanboy world and smell the roses?

    Calling every C++ developer a fanboy doesn't help your argument. I didn't see anybody calling you a C troll.

    Originally posted by energyman View Post
    'We are not talking about kernel development? Really? It was not me who brought up the kernel. It was not me attacking Linus for dismissing c++ for the linux kernel.

    Since when is Compiz (a window manager) in kernelspace?


    • #72
      it was not me who started with the 'Linus is stupid because he refuses c++ for the kernel' bullshit. That was you c++ fanboys who started with that. And SUDDENLY you backflip. Well done.


      • #73
        Since this thread already has gone way off topic...

        I'm experienced in C (many years of experience) and have also done some serious coding and debugging in C++ (using operators, templates, exceptions and whatnot).

        For me, C is seriously lacking since it does not really support an object oriented approach. (Ok, I know there are ways to more or less use C in an object oriented way - f.ex. there's a document out there called "Object-Oriented Programming With ANSI-C". This is interesting and beautiful in its own way but requires a special pre-processor and other sacrifices. Normal structs containing function pointers does not allow inheritance in a comfortable way, and it gets even worse when you try to encapsulate data. Etc.)

        Unfortunately I have not been able to get comfortable with C++ either. Abominations like automatic constructors that try to convert practically anything to something completely different (bye-bye type safety), templates (while macros are sometimes useful I think they should be used sparingly, and templates can really make debugging hellish - trying to debug cross compiled code on a target without gdb and with templates making printf unusable was not much fun - not to mention they mostly exist to enable programmers *not* to do things the correct, object oriented way) - and WHY does C++ still allow C-style casts?!

        And what's wrong with Foo foo = Foo()? Why Foo foo()?

        Oh, and operators: here is an interesting description of what you have to do to implement operator bool() properly. It amounts to at least an A4 page of code, with several classes. All this to enable the programmer to use object foo like this:

        if (foo) {...}

        ... which only really makes the code less readable: are we checking if foo is NULL or are we calling foo.operator bool? Compare to

        if (foo.is_ok()) {...} // Or whatever, which is crystal clear.

        What I'd like is C with 'class' support incl inheritance and encapsulation, new/delete, and C++-style casts ONLY. No operators, friends, templates etc. Is that really too much to ask?


        • #74
          ReactOS uses C++, nuff said.


          ReactOS uses C++ for a majority of its code, from kernel, to explorer, to notepad, etc.

          It does use C, but C++ is favored.

          The reverse is true in Linux kernel programming. There ARE a few bits and pieces of C++ code, but because of the general culture towards C++ (as already debated here), C code is more likely accepted, and so the shift there is toward C.

          Honestly, it is just a matter of preference.

          Case in point, Java.

          A lot of people say Java is crap to work with because it is slow as molasses.

          Well, when running as a JIT unoptimized JVM like the official Sun Java build, of course it is slow! However, running optimized builds made from source directly tend to be faster.

          And getting around the JVM, you could AOT (ahead of time) compile the code with GCC and get code assembled into a true binary.

          Performance is a matter of the runtime. Usability is a matter of preference. Meh.


          • #75
            O dear, another language discussion... I'll just sit on my hands this round

            Originally posted by StefanHamminga View Post
            I really don't agree here, in my opinion the 'bling' does a lot for the OS
            I've my TV hooked up to a HTPC

            I agree... but keep in mind that htpc software is something different. Here the bling part is more important than in your everage desktop workplace.
            Last edited by tmpdir; 24 January 2009, 05:30 AM.


            • #76
              Well here is what blackduck software has to say about the whole thing:

              Secure your software supply chain and identify dependencies with Synopsys software composition analysis. Take control of SCA security with our SCA Tools.

              In fact, we counted over 17,000 projects from the class of 2008 – those projects that show a creation or registration date in 2008. 47% of these newly created projects used the C language. Java came in as the number two language of choice at nearly 28%. Third was Javascript at over 20%. In the world of scripting, nearly 18% of the projects chose to use Perl while only 11% used PHP. These were both higher than Python at nearly 10% and Ruby at 6%. Note, most projects used more than one language and these results are based on the number of projects using a given language, not the number of lines of code created.


              • #77
                Originally posted by deanjo View Post
                Well here is what blackduck software has to say about the whole thing:

                Interesting stats... thanks. Around me I see and hear more and more people use python as their main script language.