KDE Developers Continue To Be Frustrated With Canonical

[cynical]

So the KDE/Wayland/redhat/insert competitor's name here, have hurt feelings about a post MS wrote weeks ago...
Yawn.

Don't they have anything better to do. Have they not seen the way google/apple/microsoft compete... Get over it. After all the silly paranoid accusations that have been leveled at Canonical in recent months, I was surprised by the mildness remarks of MS.

Yeah what's ridiculous about this is if you read the blog posts by Aaron or Martin you see that they feel insulted, offended, and attacked on a personal level. Martin even goes as far as to say that Mark's post can only be targeting the KDE community in particular, which is not what I got out of it at all. It's amazing how much is taken personally in the FOSS community. The biggest downside imo is how much this kind of stuff can affect users who depend on the software. As a user I am concerned whenever these flamefests start that somehow the quality of the distro/DE that I like will be affected by a personal grudge.

[k1l_]

just to show what agenda there is: https://plus.google.com/115606635748...ts/WGv9BEL9gMS

4 days ago while he claimes to: ..." used this week to reflect what happened 14 days ago and also the last half year in general and what I can do about it to not be affected like that."


ragequit of a dramaqueen playing the innocent lamb while provoking.

[jayrulez]

just to show what agenda there is: https://plus.google.com/115606635748...ts/WGv9BEL9gMS

4 days ago while he claimes to: ..." used this week to reflect what happened 14 days ago and also the last half year in general and what I can do about it to not be affected like that."


ragequit of a dramaqueen playing the innocent lamb while provoking.

Be careful not to point out his follies. He might just delete your post.

[Chaz]

I feel like this is already settled. From now on Unity and Mir go together. Other DEs use Wayland like they always planned to. Ubuntu won't have any non-unity versions anymore unless someone wants to maintain Wayland for Ubuntu.

Canonical decided they make phones now. For whatever reason they decided Wayland wouldn't work for phones or wouldn't be ready on time or they could just do things 10x better. Doesn't matter what the reason was or whether they were right. They thought they were right so they made the call and now it's done.

From the start Canonical said that Mir and Unity would be developed together, and Mir wouldn't provide a stable spec for other DEs to use. That says, loud and clear, that other DE's shouldn't bother porting to Mir. Sucks but most of them don't want to anyway. And folks using Ubuntu-based distros will probably have to move, but we've got some good options. Debian, Fedora, CentOS, whatever. Hell Mint made a Debian version apparently just for fun and it works fine. The toolkit makers have more cause to grumble, because Mark has made some demands of them. But if supporting Mir is too much burden then I guess they can demand Mark do the porting himself.

And also Mark said some rude stuff, and other people said some rude stuff, on both sides, maybe one side more than the other. That's worth exactly nothing. People are arrogant, people are rude sometimes, it's not worth stressing over.

If Mir's shitty enough then they'll probably migrate Ubuntu to Wayland eventually. Maybe we could hope for that, but by the time it happened Ubuntu phone would have failed, and a lot of users would have abandoned Ubuntu desktop, and they might just shut down entirely. So I won't hope for that. If Ubuntu phone is successful it'll be more or less the most open phone around, next to Firefox and Jolla phones. And device manufacturers will support it with appropriate drivers because that's how they earn their bread.

[Tgui]

Martin Gr??lin:

AAs one might know I consider Phoronix benchmarks as absolutely useless. This graph nicely highlights it. All the tested Desktop Environments have exactly the same frame rate. Which means that the assumption that the desktop has any relevance on the framerate doesn't hold.

Obviously the limiting factor has to be something else and thus the complete test set is useless. The limiting factor is present in all the tests and we don't know what it is and how it interplays with the test sets.

But still people will now use this benchmark set to claim that KDE Plasma is slower. And if you show those people this post they will say that I'm now in the "denying" stage of benchmark acceptance. The option that benchmarks are done incorrectly doesn't exist in that world.

This drama queen can't get his head out of his ass long enough to realize that statistically insignifigant results are still results. Any sane person would see that there is an issue with the results and not result to deriding the Phoronix work. So, of course he wants more drama by picking a fight with Mark S.

[squirrl]

Shoulders of Giants, it's a long ways down

Mir burnt up in the 90's on reentry.

A foreshadowing of Ubuntu's future.

KDE, I have few words to express my hatred. Oxygen is the worst theme ever.
Of all the shit that needs fixing in KDE, the default theme is top on the list.
I can do without wobbly windows until that damn theme is fixed.

Number two on the list is the Start Menu. Which, in my honest opinion will soon be replaced by a Charms bar.
Flat look anybody?

Fad Window Manger of the week.

I hate my ios7 iphone, so don't take me serious. I'm just upset with Windows 8 memes on Apple.

[Tgui]

Be careful not to point out his follies. He might just delete your post.

He is kinda of a cunt.

[Ericg]

You can't tell me the KDE or Opponents of Mir aren't being their own stronghold. It's clear they have taken up Wayland, not neutral ground.

I personally think Mir will be the better outcome for the User who wants device functionality, but Wayland will probably be better for open community principles even though Canonical is open too. I hope both Wayland and Mir work on all distros in future and the arguments can stop.

First point: They've ALWAYS "taken up Wayland" o.O there never was "neutral ground." If Mir WASNT a one distro project, then it probably would be accepted. Like if Gentoo or Arch or Debian or Suse said "We're going Mir." Then this might be a real discussion. But so far its "Everyone in the FOSS community is going Wayland." and "Ubuntu is going Mir."

Second point: Since you stated it calmly and didn't like throw it up as fact, I'll ask: Whats your reason for thinking the device functionality will be better on Mir?

[johnc]

People are still spun up over Shuttleworth's comments? I can't believe people are taking them that seriously. It wasn't even that big of a deal. Plus it seemed to be aimed mostly at the Intel decision and it even ended with the requisite smiley.

I think people in Europe are just ignorant about the Tea Party and think it's some kind of Hitler's Youth or KKK thing and that's why they've been so personally offended. It makes no sense otherwise. Either that or some of these guys have the most ridiculously thin skin around. I'm always wary of people like that.

If you want to get offended, get offended over something important like how awful Unity and GNOME 3 are.

[deanjo]

The FOSS double edge sword

Every time linux seems to be getting somewhere, they wind up feeding the pundits more fodder to use. While it is unfortunate that Canonical wants to go their own direction with their linux implementation, this kind of stuff will continue to go on until Linux has a set standard, set by the community, that defines what a linux distro comprised of. The LSB tries to address this but still allows for workarounds, loopholes, etc to squeak into "conformity".

These types of battles have been going on since the beginning of FLOSS development. Faction A wants to do this and Faction B thinks they have a better solution so they exercise their granted rights to split and continue development on their own path. This is the double edge sword of FLOSS development. While most don't like resources being split and efforts firing off in different paths, it will continue to happen until the entire linux community sets some steadfast rules and guidelines. 22 year have gone by and still items what should be simple to standardize, like filesystem hierarchy or even packaging (for example the recent attempt to reinvent yum when there is a perfectly good solution available now with libzypp/zypper), elude the linux ecosystem.

Eventually for linux to succeed on a large scale and outside of niche markets, they do need a governing body that decides these set-in-stone standards. Only then will egos not be able to thwart forward progress which are causing all the delays.