KDE Developers Continue To Be Frustrated With Canonical

[RahulSundaram]

It seems it was easier to just fork the gnome thing.

It is easier to post randomly than actually participate.

[RahulSundaram]

Is not that guy working for intel now? And is not you comment just highlighting the fact that this "community" is in reality a community of companies ?

Linux kernel is developed over 80% by companies as well. That is the way successful projects are done. So what?

[gens]

What is your point? Big companies use open source software for their own benefit . Intel and samsung created Wayland for their own interests and goals.

wayland was mostly made by one man
il just quote wiki as it's written nice
"Kristian H?gsberg (krh), a software engineer who works on the Linux graphics stack, started Wayland as a spare-time project in 2008, while working for Red Hat;[75] he is now at Intel.[76] His earlier work on X included AIGLX,[77] which enabled hardware acceleration of compositing window managers, and DRI2."

basically replace X with something that uses the gpu to do what its made for
from what i see wayland is simple, flexible and well documented

so why would you think its bad ?

from what i see most of kernels more complicated systems (like the scheduler) have been made better 'cuz some company had something to gain from it

enlightenment is sponsored by samsung for their tv's and fridges
on my computer it looks good, is very customizable, fully ICCCM compliant
if i didn't know better id say it was made only for desktop
as rasterman still has the last word on it despite samsung giving him a paycheck

PS http://cgit.freedesktop.org/wayland/weston/tree/src
weston source code, even i can understand and extend it (i do know very basic opengl)


on topic:

a company should never use its influence and/or manpower to force anybody to do anything
Mark should know there are many Ubuntu fanboys when he is making statements about other people/projects
it is called responsibility
example case of a youtube celebrity totalbiscuit, who criticized he's own fans when they spammed and/or flamed people that didnt 100% agree with him

as far as i'm concerned KDE devs can say "we wont do it 'cuz we hate cannonical/ubuntu" and no one has the right to complain
(they did reject mir on the basis of it being ubuntu only, not 'cuz they didn't want to work with canonical but 'cuz they wanted to work on KDE for everybody)

[Alex Sarmiento]

Linux kernel is developed over 80% by companies as well. That is the way successful projects are done. So what?

So what? So, Linus Torvalds have to deal with all those companies and show the finger to any company who tries to make nonsensical changes in the mainline kernel for their own benefit.

https://lkml.org/lkml/2013/2/21/228

Linus:
If Red Hat wants to deep-throat Microsoft, that's *your* issue. That
has nothing what-so-ever to do with the kernel I maintain.

Whatever, this guy is great. Oh! and the famous finger to nvidia, the long delay to accept the patches from android, etc.

The moral of the history here is that you picked up the worst example possible to demonstrate "the way the successful projects are done" if you are talking about Wayland and its relationship with some companies . Of course this applies to MIR too but i am sure that was not your intention. So is hard to see what your point really is , when as a matter of fact , Wayland is driven by Intel behind the scenes .

[Alex Sarmiento]

wayland was mostly made by one man
il just quote wiki as it's written nice
"Kristian H?gsberg (krh), a software engineer who works on the Linux graphics stack, started Wayland as a spare-time project in 2008, while working for Red Hat;[75] he is now at Intel.[76] His earlier work on X included AIGLX,[77] which enabled hardware acceleration of compositing window managers, and DRI2."

basically replace X with something that uses the gpu to do what its made for
from what i see wayland is simple, flexible and well documented

so why would you think its bad ?

from what i see most of kernels more complicated systems (like the scheduler) have been made better 'cuz some company had something to gain from it

enlightenment is sponsored by samsung for their tv's and fridges
on my computer it looks good, is very customizable, fully ICCCM compliant
if i didn't know better id say it was made only for desktop
as rasterman still has the last word on it despite samsung giving him a paycheck

PS http://cgit.freedesktop.org/wayland/weston/tree/src
weston source code, even i can understand and extend it (i do know very basic opengl)


on topic:

a company should never use its influence and/or manpower to force anybody to do anything
Mark should know there are many Ubuntu fanboys when he is making statements about other people/projects
it is called responsibility
example case of a youtube celebrity totalbiscuit, who criticized he's own fans when they spammed and/or flamed people that didnt 100% agree with him

as far as i'm concerned KDE devs can say "we wont do it 'cuz we hate cannonical/ubuntu" and no one has the right to complain
(they did reject mir on the basis of it being ubuntu only, not 'cuz they didn't want to work with canonical but 'cuz they wanted to work on KDE for everybody)

I tried to make sense out of your post but i couldn't. Now I feel like a failure :/

[MartinN]

a personal appeal to Aaron + Martin of KDE fame

Guys, I hope you are reading this forum - of course Mark saw and ignored your invitation to debate, probably because there is nothing to debate. He's made his bed and he is willing to lie in it.

I implore you to not waste another single brain cell or a breath on Canonical and to utterly, completely ignore them and focus your energy and focus 150% on making the absolute, most bugless/crashless DE on the planet, making it an envy to others and a pleasure to use for all.

This will speak infinitely louder than attempting to rationalize or defend Wayland in the face of Mir. Use the good will of those who sympathize and empathize with the Wayland effort and try to recruit people to help with coding/testing.

I implore you not to give a single thought any more to Mir, and if you do, just think of the kind of future you want to create with the Wayland/Weston effort - that should be enough to re-motivate you when thoughts of Mir come up.

[gens]

I tried to make sense out of your post but i couldn't. Now I feel like a failure :/

am bad at explaining things
go to the wikipedia to find out about wayland and mir
wayland has an interesting history not directly associated to a company

to not spam:
context !
read Linus's statements in context
out of context anything can be made to sound like anything

Linus as well as the Xorg foundation and many more foundations are there so big companies dont tear each other apart (tearing linux "ecology" on the way)
wayland is one of those things everybody agrees upon without it being forced on others

[BSDude]

False. We've been over this over and over again. The only reason why Mir seems like they're "faster" than Wayland is because Canonical is piggybacking on the 5 years of hard groundwork done by the Wayland devs, without which both Wayland and Mir would be impossible to implement.

Also, Jolla's Sailfish phone, which uses Wayland, will be on the market sooner than any Ubuntu phone. At this rate, probably even Tizen phones (also using Wayland) will beat Ubuntu to the punch. So that kind of shoots down that theory.

I did not say that Mir is being developed faster. What I'm saying is that Canonical had no control over the speed of Wayland development that's why they came up with Mir so that they can take anything that's important from Wayland implement it in Mir and continue work from there at their own pace.

[BSDude]

I tried to make sense out of your post but i couldn't. Now I feel like a failure :/

I think what he tried to say is that companies are inherently interested in improving the stack that is important to them. Regarding khr (Kris Hogsberg) it was his own idea and he worked on it without modifying to the needs of Red Hat and Intel. I would think that Intel is interested mainly for the reason to push wayland on laptops and tablets powered by their chips. Also the likes of Google can benefit for their Chromebooks and auto companies for their infotainment systems.

[RahulSundaram]

So what? So, Linus Torvalds have to deal with all those companies and show the finger to any company who tries to make nonsensical changes in the mainline kernel for their own benefit.

Well, no because every company changes is essentially for their own benefit and majority of changes are not reviewed by Linus at all. You can point out to a few silly flamefests but that doesnt change the simple fact that Linux kernel development is almost entirely dominated by commercial organizations. You do need appropriate licensing and policies with neutral governance and those are provided by non-profit foundations like FSF, Apache, GNOME foundation, Linux foundation etc. If you have a real concern, state it directly. Merely pointing out commercial influence is not news to anyone.