Originally posted by jrch2k8
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Originally posted by Vim_User View PostYou mean except the largest distros (Ubuntu, ChromeOS, Android, for Debian we still don't know) and Gnome. For KDE I don't see a move to systemd, neither for XFCE or any other DE.
You will, once you realized that eliminating choice and depending on only one software is a bad thing for Linux. But of course you will deny that now. As I already told that Honton troll: If you are against choice and find comfort with that maybe try Apple, seems to fit.
Systemd is not a problem of use this by force because evil lennart and redhat wanna control the world, the problem lies that systemd is already too far away from any other init system in features that for developers is like go back to use wooden square wheels in their cars after have tried solid bullet proof round wheels with radials.
the problem is not systemd, is all other systems that refuse to leave the 90's SCO era
systemd for users completely destroy any other choice in features and for developers[especially ISV and DE teams] it make things 100000000 times easier, faster, more reliable and standarized across distro(ofc you have to bother in do the mortal sin of going to http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/ and do the heretic act of read a bit )
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Originally posted by intellivision View PostWell Gnome is the only DE that has gone against the grain and used systemd exclusively. I doubt KDE or any of the other main desktop environments would be stupid enough to alienate their users without any upgrade path.
E18 should be wayland/systemd combo, xfce well after gtk3 migration dunno which session manager they will use, cinammon/mate i think they relay on gdm, etc
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Originally posted by jrch2k8 View Postwell KF5 is on heavy development but already the idea of burning with fire KDM codebase entirely is there and the logind integration is there too, check the mailing list is actually free
Systemd is not a problem of use this by force because evil lennart and redhat wanna control the world, the problem lies that systemd is already too far away from any other init system in features that for developers is like go back to use wooden square wheels in their cars after have tried solid bullet proof round wheels with radials.
the problem is not systemd, is all other systems that refuse to leave the 90's SCO era
systemd for users completely destroy any other choice in features and for developers[especially ISV and DE teams] it make things 100000000 times easier, faster, more reliable and standarized across distro(ofc you have to bother in do the mortal sin of going to http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/ and do the heretic act of read a bit )
Anyways, the reasons why systemd is forced into the market (IMHO it is rather the "Hey, you can use anything modular, oh wait, you can't we just added a few dependencies in the last version" approach than superior features) are totally irrelevant, it doesn't change a bit that it is a very bad idea to put all your eggs into one basket. You will neither be the first nor the last person to find such elemental knowledge that applies to anything in life, but sooner or later you will find it.
When the point comes that every distro has to use systemd Linux is officially dead for me and I have to look for sane alternatives.Last edited by Vim_User; 18 September 2013, 09:58 PM.
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Originally posted by jrch2k8 View Postwell KDE 4.11 already got as heavy dep polkit[same as gnome 3.6 i think] and it already uses heavily logind through polkit too, the proper integration would be expected in 5.0 or 5.1 release since KDM is getting totally removed and in next kernels/polkit VT_CONFIG/consolekit support in polkit are finally taking their retirement package.
E18 should be wayland/systemd combo, xfce well after gtk3 migration dunno which session manager they will use, cinammon/mate i think they relay on gdm, etc
Good to see that you've reiterated my point there.
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Originally posted by Vim_User View PostYou can be assured that I have "read a bit" and actually tested that abomination in Arch. Was anything but a good experience.
Anyways, the reasons why systemd is forced into the market (IMHO it is rather the "Hey, you can use anything modular, oh wait, you can't we just added a few dependencies in the last version" approach than superior features) are totally irrelevant, it doesn't change a bit that it is a very bad idea to put all your eggs into one basket. You will neither be the first nor the last person to find such elemental knowledge that applies to anything in life, but sooner or later you will find it.
When the point comes that every distro has to use systemd Linux is officially dead for me and I have to look for sane alternatives.
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Originally posted by mrugiero View PostThen don't. If you think putting all your eggs on a basket is a bad choice, implement features somewhere else, instead of trying to force developers to tie things with wires everywhere.
And it looks as though the largest players such as Google and Canonical will not be moving their platforms' bases to systemd either, so now the workload of porting Gnome to those platforms has increased exponentially.
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Originally posted by intellivision View PostThey weren't complaining about it before systemd came along and tried to assimilate the Linux space.
And it looks as though the largest players such as Google and Canonical will not be moving their platforms' bases to systemd either, so now the workload of porting Gnome to those platforms has increased exponentially.
Another thing is Canonical uses logind already (they froze to an older version, yes), and I bet Google uses the same.
I'd expect them to switch as soon as Debian switches.
Also, before GUIs existed, there was no one complaining they didn't have one. But try to give a random user a CLI, and look at the reaction.
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Originally posted by mrugiero View PostWhere "increased exponentially" equals writing a backend to upstart or whatever they want to use for the needed features, if it provides the features expected. Even more, since there was a ConsoleKit backend for the same features (which bitrot, because nobody was willing to maintain it when they called for it), I'm pretty sure the work on the abstraction front is already done. Only thing lacking is the actual backend.
Another thing is Canonical uses logind already (they froze to an older version, yes), and I bet Google uses the same.
I'd expect them to switch as soon as Debian switches.
Also, Ubuntu may support a legacy version of logind but that version won't be compatible with 3.10, so Gnome users will be left behind by their own upstream on Ubuntu as well.
Furthermore, I'd like to see this proof that Google does the same with their Linux OS's Chrome OS and Android, unless you state that what you've said is pure unsubstantiated conjecture.
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Originally posted by intellivision View PostSo if the work isn't that hard to undertake, why hasn't the Gnome team done their job and supported those setups which thousands of people use every day?
Also, Ubuntu may support a legacy version of logind but that version won't be compatible with 3.10, so Gnome users will be left behind by their own upstream on Ubuntu as well.
Furthermore, I'd like to see this proof that Google does the same with their Linux OS's Chrome OS and Android, unless you state that what you've said is pure unsubstantiated conjecture.
On another front, developers in the free software world are either paid by someone interested in something (Red Hat will not pay support for something their users don't have, and guess what Red Hat distributions don't use) or work for free, because of their own interest. On neither case should you expect to support anything they or the ones paying them don't use. They accept patches, they do code revision, and that's as far as their legitimate responsibility with anyone else goes. You want a feature? Great, write a patch. It will go through revision, and if it doesn't screw anything it will probably get accepted. That's how it works. You are not a coder? Well, then, you can start a kickstarter (or directly pay up), and ask someone to code for you in exchange of money. Else, quit giving orders, you are nobody's boss.
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