Systemd-Logind Device Management For Wayland

[duby229]

If you don't want to contribute to upstream, no design is really workable. Software requires maintenance which includes fixing bugs. Not just compiling.

I'm personally not a programmer, I don't have the skill or patience to do it, but the devs that maintain the packages for gentoo and debian are. As far as everything that I've read consolekit hasnt changed much in a while. So you tell me how a package that hasnt changed much used to work but doesnt now? It seems pretty much obvious. It wasnt changes in consolekit that caused this problem, it was changes in gnome.

[duby229]

Well, is there any other option, aside of ConsoleKit and logind?

The only other option I can see is if gnome fixes their junk. But you know how gnome is, they do what they want and damn the user.

[TheBlackCat]

As far as everything that I've read consolekit hasnt changed much in a while. So you tell me how a package that hasnt changed much used to work but doesnt now?

It's called "bit rot". It happens all the time. It is the reason why unmaintained code is such a problem. It isn't just Gnome that is changing, the software that consolekit depends on is also changing, which can cause consolekit to break unexpectedly.

If you are going to blame Gnome for this, you need to point out the change in Gnome that is responsible. Otherwise we don't know whether it is Gnome, PAM, glib, dbus, xlib, inotify, the kernel, some configuration settings somewhere, something else, or some particular combination of the above that is responsible.

[duby229]

It's called "bit rot". It happens all the time. It is the reason why unmaintained code is such a problem. It isn't just Gnome that is changing, the software that consolekit depends on is also changing, which can cause consolekit to break unexpectedly.

If you are going to blame Gnome for this, you need to point out the change in Gnome that is responsible. Otherwise we don't know whether it is Gnome, PAM, glib, dbus, xlib, inotify, the kernel, some configuration settings somewhere, something else, or some particular combination of the above that is responsible.

That's fair enough, I can live with that answer. It's the best I've heard from anybody so far, including the gentoo and debian devs. It's also a good reason why gentoo had no choice but to make systemd a dependency.

[duby229]

Then revoke any accusations against Gnome for not caring.

I firmly believe they don't care. At least as far as their userbase. Their actions speak load and clear.

[Delgarde]

The more I read topic related about BSDs, the more it appears BSD is responsible of its own downfall for nearly twenty years to the point GNU/Linux surpassed that project long time ago.
BSD had their chance and needed a complete overhaul within the organization.

Yeah, that's my feeling too. Over the years, I've several times seen developers from one or another of the BSDs come onto the mailing lists for projects like HAL and NetworkManager and so forth, looking for help and advice in porting it to a BSD. And that's great, but it generally comes a year or two after the project has already become mainstream on Linux, and thus, at a point where it's too late to have any influence over how things are done. There's no up-front participation from them - only belated reaction.

[Delgarde]

Usually the software with the largest userbase is the standard, not the other way around. So unless Fedora, openSuse and other distros that use systemd have a larger userbase than Ubuntu, Debian, Gentoo, Slackware and all their derivatives I can't see how systemd can be the standard.

Nope - the standard isn't the largest userbase - it's whatever the people actually doing the work do. So if the people developing Gnome and KDE and XFCE and so forth all end up using logind, that becomes the standard, and anyone who doesn't like it will have to solve their own problems...

[duby229]

Your bias speaks loud and clear. Blaming Gnome for random bit rot is not very nice. Fact is nobody cares for CK, and if Gentoo can't fix that it says more about Gentoo than anyone else.

well, that's fair enough. I can admit when I'm biased. But, I'm also a realist, the reason that I'm biased is because of decisions that gnome (made). If they had made them in my favor I wouldnt need to be. And at this point there are far more people that agree with me then don't. Just look at gnomes share of the desktop.

[RahulSundaram]

well, that's fair enough. I can admit when I'm biased. But, I'm also a realist, the reason that I'm biased is because of decisions that gnome (made). If they had made them in my favor I wouldnt need to be. And at this point there are far more people that agree with me then don't. Just look at gnomes share of the desktop.

GNOME is a free software project. Share of the desktop (which itself is not easy to determine) doesn't mean much when the Linux desktop on the whole is hovering around 1% or so for about a decade. What really matters for a free software project is a healthy community of contributors which GNOME does have. Also, so far you haven't expressed any reason why GNOME should depend on unmaintained software instead of moving forward with new and actively maintained components. So I have no idea what you real complaint is.

[duby229]

GNOME is a free software project. Share of the desktop (which itself is not easy to determine) doesn't mean much when the Linux desktop on the whole is hovering around 1% or so for about a decade. What really matters for a free software project is a healthy community of contributors which GNOME does have. Also, so far you haven't expressed any reason why GNOME should depend on unmaintained software instead of moving forward with new and actively maintained components. So I have no idea what you real complaint is.

I haven't made any complaints. Read my posts, all of them were either correcting misinformation or stating my opinions. And of the opinions I stated they may seem contrary to yours, but they werent complaints.

EDIT: the fact is that gnome is broken on consolekit and only works right on logind and as of systemd 205 logind can't work by itself. None of this is complaints, they are simply facts. The real shame is that I've had to respond so many times over and over and over again saying the same thing, and it still seems like it hasnt sunk in yet.