Xfce, LXDE, & GNOME Are Running On Ubuntu XMir

[seb24]

There is no ideology here. Sane people see that canonical is hurting linux because they don't care about linux. They want power, they want control, they want money. They have control over lots of brainwashed sheeps here.

ah ah . Yes FUD and personal attack it's technical discussion.
Thx you give me a good example of toxic behaviour.

[phoen1x]

ah ah . Yes FUD and personal attack it's technical discussion.
Thx you give me a good example of toxic behaviour.

Have you read this? http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/551 Now they created Mir because wayland is bad, but reasons are unknown, but we all know them, they want control and money. Talking about toxic eh? I'm just user, i don't make decisions which hurt linux.

[seb24]

Have you read this? http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/551 Talking about toxic eh? I'm just user, i don't make decisions which hurt linux.

Making technical decision is not a "toxic" decision. Ranting again project, people and company just for pleasure is it.
And in your link you have another example that Canonical in 2010 was looking for different solution than Wayland.

[phoen1x]

Making technical decision is not a "toxic" decision. Ranting again project, people and company just for pleasure is it.
And in your link you have another example that Canonical in 2010 was looking for different solution than Wayland.

They don't have enough man power to create something big like display server, so they copy paste waylands code yet again. Seriously u are just plain stupid. Everybody(big companies, developers and Canonical too LOLOLO) agreed that Wayland is the way to go and they worked that way. Now Canonical comes and says "hey wayland is crap we are developing Mir, can you please port everything to Mir too, we could help you but we suck at coding and we lack man power" LOL. Oh and they can break ABI, API whatever 'n' shit because they can. That is NOT TOXIC for linux i guess. Thumbs up.

[a user]

They don't have enough man power to create something big like display server, so they copy paste waylands code yet again. Seriously u are just plain stupid.

out of arguments?

Everybody(big companies, developers) agreed that Wayland is the way to go and they worked that way.

no! it was the only alternative while many (not all!!!) agreed we need something new over X. regarding wayland itself many if not most people were skeptical at the beginning. in fact there were many voices say "why waste resources into wayland... we do not need another display server".

forgot that?

Now Canonical comes and says "hey wayland is crap we are developing Mir, can you please port everything to Mir too, we could help you but we suck at coding and we lack man power" LOL. Oh and they can break ABI, API whatever 'n' shit because they can. That is NOT TOXIC for linux i guess. Thumbs up.

talking about "crap" are your words. they were not happy with the developement of wayland. if they were right or not is different story. you are overreacting havingly and modifying the actually events by using words like crap etc.


p.s. i personally will stick to X11 as long as wayland does not support network transparency (did they changed that meanwhile?).

[chrisb]

Nope, dee is totally correct here. When Google introduced Android, the Gnu/Linux community was not happy, and as you can see, there are very little applications that are currently cross platforms between X/Gnu/Linux and Android, or that benefited desktop Linux.

That is just because no desktop has bothered to integrate an Android app compatibility layer. Canonical were considering it at one point, but apparently Google said they weren't interested. It was demonstrated at an Ubuntu conference running real apps though, and the developer who implemented it said it took only 1 day to do, so it can't be that much work.

It does seem a little odd that the new Samsung laptops are going to ship with the capability to run Android apps on Windows 8 when Linux desktops can't; I had anticipated a Linux compatibility layer would have been done within 6 months of the release of the Android source code.

[bkor]

Oke, clear. This means a hard schism between *buntu and non-buntu system. That is also a clear solution. I didn't expect that of a hard line stance, but it avoids compromising to accommodate a vendor specific display server.

Canonical/Ubuntu already said that probably Wayland could be used for Kubuntu and so on. They cannot run at the same time though. So if you install Ubuntu, it will be really difficult to switch between Unity and something Wayland based (as Mir is a system compositor). However, a *buntu flavour could use Wayland. At least that is how I interpreted things.

During last week they seemed to appreciate GNOME/KDE to add Mir support. However, they have _not_ reached out. I've mentioned to reach out, they'd have to write to the relevant mailing lists. IIRC they're still discussing within Ubuntu before doing that.

There is no "hard line stance" btw. As mentioned before, we got clear information that Mir is API unstable and that focus in on Unity. That changed recently as well, but kind of doesn't change the fact that when the decision was made, it was not Wayland or Mir or X. It was Wayland or X and we already decided on Wayland and did a bunch of work on it. Since then, more work has been done on Wayland, Mir is still specific to Ubuntu and nobody at GNOME seem to have experience with it.

Note that initially, it seemed like Mir had a dependency on LightDM, while we use GDM.

I am ambivalent that Canonical makes its own display server. But a "wait and see" approach regarding Mir makes most logical sense.

Just being practical:
1. How does anyone expect developers to investigate with something that requires switching distributions?
2. I have not seen any submission from Canonical submitting Mir support to Gtk+. I have no idea if that is going to be an Ubuntu-specific patch, or the intention is to integrate that upstream.

Especially #2, usually such things are announced. A plan, some timeframe, etc. I assume this is all very well known within Canonical, but I have no idea what the intention is.

[chrisb]

Will DE's such as Gnome and KDE drop X support, when they know that will instantly cut off several *buntu spinoffs from being able to use these DE's?

I don't see why that would be necessary: if Gnome and KDE require Wayland then it can be included in Ubuntu. Indeed, it will be included by default once it is in Debian.

[chrisb]

Note that initially, it seemed like Mir had a dependency on LightDM, while we use GDM.

Just being practical:
1. How does anyone expect developers to investigate with something that requires switching distributions?

LightDM has been the default in Ubuntu for several years already. Off the top of my head, from a basic install it pulls in around 25mb, whereas gdm and it's libraries pull in about 250mb. That can make a big difference on some systems.

Regarding switching distributions, we live in good times for that. We now have usable virtual machines. An automatic install of a virtual machine takes around 5 minutes and is completely usable for most tasks. Even real hardware isn't such a big deal, I remade a development laptop the other day and put 4 distributions on it (lvm root for each). Grub detects them all automatically. Total time: about one hour. My first Linux install took 5 days to download at 2400bps, now we have broadband it takes minutes. Like I said, we live in good times for this stuff.. try it out and you might be surprised how quick and easy it has become. I would encourage every developer to try different distributions once in a while. Cross pollination of ideas is a good thing.

[bkor]

LightDM has been the default in Ubuntu for several years already. Off the top of my head, from a basic install it pulls in around 25mb, whereas gdm and it's libraries pull in about 250mb. That can make a big difference on some systems.

So I'm saying that initially (took a while before it was corrected) Mir seemed to *require* LightDM while GNOME uses GDM. What are you suggesting? That GNOME should just drop GDM, despite that we require it for various bits? Don't you understand how strange this comes across if we already were working on Wayland?

Regarding switching distributions, we live in good times for that. We now have usable virtual machines. An automatic install of a virtual machine takes around 5 minutes and is completely usable for most tasks. Even real hardware isn't such a big deal, I remade a development laptop the other day and put 4 distributions on it (lvm root for each). Grub detects them all automatically. Total time: about one hour. My first Linux install took 5 days to download at 2400bps, now we have broadband it takes minutes. Like I said, we live in good times for this stuff.. try it out and you might be surprised how quick and easy it has become. I would encourage every developer to try different distributions once in a while. Cross pollination of ideas is a good thing.

Right, so just remove GDM and use a VM to help with a distro specific solution! Then as a developer you'll be spending time on something which only works in that VM. Ehhr?!? Why would anyone do that again? Your distribution is not going to use it, why spend time on it?

Or maybe just expand on your existing Wayland knowledge using the existing development setup? I assume that would be way easier. At the moment I haven't seen anyone outside of Ubuntu looking into Mir.

A lot of things *could* be done, but I just don't get why anyone would.