More Mir Talking Points Come Out Of Canonical

[e8hffff]

[e8hffff]

You're clearly not well informed about Sailfish, it uses libhybris just like Ubuntu for mobile (it actually devised it), it has the ability to exploit the Android hw layer in the same way.

I'm not that up with Sailfish(MeeGo 2). I did see their original promo jolla video months ago. From what you said, it seems like a good project similar to Ubuntu Phone. I'll have to check it out more.

Looking at the Wikipedia page it has a Alien Dalvik layer which allows for Android apps to work. 'libhybris' allows for loading of Android libraries.

[GreatEmerald]

Yes, you're correct. I'm not that up with Sailfish(MeeGo 2). From what you said, it seems like an equally good project as Ubuntu Phone. I'll have to check it out.

"MeeGo 2", as you call it, is actually Mer (it's in the name, even - "MeeGo Reconstructed"). Sailfish is in essence a Mer/GNU/Linux distribution. So is one variant of Plasma Active, actually (the other one is standard Linux, based on Kubuntu).

[jalyst]

Looking at the Wikipedia page it has a Alien Dalvik layer which allows for Android apps to work. 'libhybris' allows for loading of Android libraries.

They're completely different things & I understand their differences, libhybris was created by one of the MeR devs/founders, it's since been forked & contributed to by various parties, inc. Canonical.
MeR's the foundation layer that's used by Nemo/Sailfish/Plasma & could've been use by Ubuntu, alas they chose to bind very tightly to Android, although the plan seems to be to slowly move away from that.

[Hamish Wilson]

So now we know the difficulties, it's clear Canonical has the answers to broaden Linux Users access to hardware. They have mastermind a plan and shown proof of concept to piggyback on Android whilst still keeping true to Linux's base. A win for all Linux Users.

Why should I want Canonical to replace Google in the mobile space? What the hell would we gain?

Google is a vendor that has a free software operating system (Android) on phones but also releases proprietary software products, uses almost exclusively proprietary blob drivers for supporting it's hardware, and ships with DRM protections.

Canonical is a vendor that is trying to create a free software operating system (Ubuntu) on phones but also releases proprietary software products, uses the exact same proprietary blob drivers for supporting it's hardware, and will ship with DRM protections.

Why should I support this effort to shake up the status quo when it will just be more of the same? New boss, just the same as the old boss people...

[e8hffff]

You're clearly not well informed about Sailfish.

So where is all the flash images for Jolla Sailfish? Is there a Nexus 7 image?

[TemplarGR]

Why should I want Canonical to replace Google in the mobile space? What the hell would we gain?

Google is a vendor that has a free software operating system (Android) on phones but also releases proprietary software products, uses almost exclusively proprietary blob drivers for supporting it's hardware, and ships with DRM protections.

Canonical is a vendor that is trying to create a free software operating system (Ubuntu) on phones but also releases proprietary software products, uses the exact same proprietary blob drivers for supporting it's hardware, and will ship with DRM protections.

Why should I support this effort to shake up the status quo when it will just be more of the same? New boss, just the same as the old boss people...

There is a difference:

Google has a free operating system created from scratch by themselves(as a distro i mean) targeted on a specific hardware platform that didn't exist prior and wasn't supported by FOSS solutions anyway, so there was no fragmentation.

Canonical on the other hand, had an existing popular desktop distro, targeted at the average Desktop user, that they made using commercial efforts as free labour (Debian), and then they decided they wanted to target a completely different platform (smartphones), so they alienated their existing userbase with decisions like Unity and Mir, created fragmentation on the existing FOSS environment. Canonical's changes are clearly targeted to smartphones, not only they do not benefit the desktop users at all but instead they are a regression. And when people complain about these changes and leave in great numbers, they unleash their PR people to spread FUD.

To me, it is clear that between the 2, Google is the less evil and have my full support.

[jalyst]

So where is all the flash images for Jolla Sailfish? Is there a Nexus 7 image?

That I cannot answer, I'm not sure why they've not chosen (yet) to release images for multiple devices, their rationale (IIRC) is mostly that they want it closely targeted for the end (real) metal, not a superficial image that isn't actually for all lvls of the stack. Having it on lotsa devices is good for the uppermost lvls, but it doesn't do much for the lower levels directly interfacing with the hw that it's ultimately intended for. Fact remains though, that it can use libhybris, & leverage it in the same way Ubuntu has sought to...

[bwat47]

There is a difference:

Google has a free operating system created from scratch by themselves(as a distro i mean) targeted on a specific hardware platform that didn't exist prior and wasn't supported by FOSS solutions anyway, so there was no fragmentation.

Canonical on the other hand, had an existing popular desktop distro, targeted at the average Desktop user, that they made using commercial efforts as free labour (Debian), and then they decided they wanted to target a completely different platform (smartphones), so they alienated their existing userbase with decisions like Unity and Mir, created fragmentation on the existing FOSS environment. Canonical's changes are clearly targeted to smartphones, not only they do not benefit the desktop users at all but instead they are a regression. And when people complain about these changes and leave in great numbers, they unleash their PR people to spread FUD.

To me, it is clear that between the 2, Google is the less evil and have my full support.

Well put. google/android certainly isn't perfect, but at least they didn't try to destroy an existing ecosystem with it. Android from the beginning was its own os that just used the linux kernel. (and google has actually been getting better at working with upstream recently, I believe I read that the android kernel and upstream kernel are being merged)

Hell the only reason mir is even remotely feasible is because of work that's already been done by wayland developers and other upstream developers. Canonical is just becoming a vampire at this point.

[bwat47]

So you admit Wayland has schedule problems that are incompatible with what Canonical needs to release their mobile assault! Therefore Mir is justified in being embellished.

Did you even read the rest of my post?

Wayland is already far more complete than mir (wayland/weston is fully testable at this point, mir at the moment is just a bit of leveraged xwayland code that barely does anything), if canonical adopted wayland and worked with upstream they would be in an even better position to meet their mobile deadline.

I highly doubt canonical's 2014 deadline is even feasible, given that they are totally re-writing unity, writing a new [pointless] display server, patching the toolkits themselves etc... this is just canonical blowing hot air.

Canonical has time and time again fallen flat on their face on the programming side of things. Unity/compiz was a horribly buggy and is only now shaping up in 13.04, and now they are about to tear everything down again for another re-write. The ubuntu software center is another example, its interface is very nice, but its a horribly slow and bloated. Canonical has a great touch when it comes to UI's, but they don't really have a ton of programming expertise, and the wayland team is far more experienced in creating a display server than canonical's team. Just look at how canonical and their developers have time and time again shown that they barely even understand how wayland works. You seriously think all of their lofty goals and deadlines with mir and this unity re-write will be met?

I used to be an ubuntu fanboy myself, but my eyes are now fully opened to how canonical benefits from the work of upstream developers and rarely gives anything back.