Originally posted by nightmarex
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Canonical Announces Mir Back-End For Mainline Mesa
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Originally posted by cykusz View PostInstead of creating whole new display server, they could build unity atop wayland, just like kwin, gnome-shell, e17 and others would do. Wayland devs would be more than happy cooperating with Canonical to suit wayland protocol to their needs.. Thats the point of display server to be as universal as possible. With Mir, its possible that it will only power Unity, negating the whole purpose of general display server, which every distro can easily use
Mir is goal-driven, not community-driven, what makes Mir development much faster. They don't need to wait on agreement on the community side to make things work.
Mir will be fully reusable with other DE's. Obviously, it will be designed to work with Unity, but it doesn't mean that running KDE or whatever won't be possible. What is Wayland designed for? Nothing.Last edited by Siekacz; 09 March 2013, 04:41 PM.
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Originally posted by Siekacz View PostChoose: Wayland with a lot of compromises, which require additional work to make it suit your needs and Mir which suits you perfectly.
Mir will be fully reusable with other DE's. Obviously, it will be designed to work with Unity, but it doesn't mean that running KDE or whatever won't be possible.
What is Wayland designed for? Nothing.
Canonical is really reminding me of Sun right now, only with a lot less in house expertise.
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Originally posted by Siekacz View PostChoose: Wayland with a lot of compromises, which require additional work to make it suit your needs and Mir which suits you perfectly. First solution requires a lot more work, because of conflicts in goals. Second needs a lot of work only at the beginning, but then much less - once you write it you have exactly what you want, and you don't need to worry about others. Wayland would never suit Ubuntu, because of shared code with others. Canonical would be blocked with a lot of things, just because they are "distro-specific".
Originally posted by Siekacz View PostMir is goal-driven, not community-driven, what makes Mir development much faster. They don't need to wait on agreement on the community side to make things work.
Originally posted by Siekacz View PostMir will be fully reusable with other DE's. Obviously, it will be designed to work with Unity, but it doesn't mean that running KDE or whatever won't be possible. What is Wayland designed for? Nothing.
What you are suggesting is to throw away (to use a political analogy) a democratic assembly of developers in favour of one assertive strong-man who will make all of the decisions for himself above others. I am sure Gnome, KDE, Xfce, LXDE, and the like will love that....
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Democracy is something that doomed a lot of OpenSource projects (democracy is good on paper, in reality it sucks and has nothing to do with freedom. Dictatorship is good or bad. Democracy always is stupid. - where is your so-called freedom? Why do you want to force Ubuntu to use the Only One Right Display Server?). Ubuntu is "meritocracy", as it was said in the past.
Wayland is not compatibile with Andoid drivers (Weston branch was killed some weeks ago), and for Ubuntu compatibility with Android drivers is crucial. Wayland dev's will say they don't need this and we have conflict of interests and IBC (Invented By Canonical) syndrome kicks in, because of distro-specific patches. It's a between wind and water situation. They need control over their product, Wayland takes this control away and puts it in the hands of RedHat and other anti-Canonical entities. Wayland is not ready and won't be in a year or two, and Canonical can't wait. Even if they supported Wayland they simply coudn't fast-progress, because of outside-Canonical people involved in wayland development.
That's why they keep on using upstart instead of systemd, which is a doing-everything-monolithic-bloatware (ironically it's against modularity of Linux).
PS. I am waiting MS code being thrown out of the window from kernel, because of Hyper-V-specific patches.Last edited by Siekacz; 09 March 2013, 07:58 PM.
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Originally posted by Siekacz View PostWayland is not compatibile with Andoid drivers (Weston branch was killed some weeks ago), and for Ubuntu compatibility with Android drivers is crucial.
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Way to respond to basically none of my points. Your screed about Ubuntu being attacked from all sides by a virulent community out for it's own destruction is debatable enough, but you also failed to address my main point about Mir, which is that if it does become the default display server it will place all of the power in Canonical's hands, and everyone else will be in an even worse position to the one you ascribed to Canonical. You take Canonical's side so willingly when it comes to letting them control their own destiny, but fail to realize that taking the power from the community will force the community to be in an even worse situation when it comes to being forced into Canonical's mono-culture. Considering how much Canonical has depended on the community for much of it's current infrastructure and status, that seems like quite a bad bargain.Last edited by Hamish Wilson; 10 March 2013, 02:49 AM.
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Originally posted by Siekacz View PostUbuntu compatibility with Android drivers is crucial.
PS. I am waiting MS code being thrown out of the window from kernel, because of Hyper-V-specific patches.
Why would sane people throw away MS patches?
Funny, you said wayland is not ready, even though MIR is nowhere near as complete as wayland. Canonical does not have enough man power to create big project like next display server.Last edited by phoen1x; 10 March 2013, 04:49 AM.
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Originally posted by Siekacz View PostThis is best picture of so-called "FOSS Community". Hate, jealous, hypocrisy and IBC (Invented By Canonical) syndrome. If Mir will be successful, then it is only GOOD for everyone. If not - it will fail, so who cares? Go on Canonical, show what you can do and don't look at jealous and hating guys just because you do not want to use their code. Ubuntu is your distro and if Wayland does not fulfill your expectations and forces compromises just don't use it.
Exactly ... +1 :-)
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Originally posted by Siekacz View PostChoose: Wayland with a lot of compromises, which require additional work to make it suit your needs and Mir which suits you perfectly. First solution requires a lot more work, because of conflicts in goals. Second needs a lot of work only at the beginning, but then much less - once you write it you have exactly what you want, and you don't need to worry about others. Wayland would never suit Ubuntu, because of shared code with others. Canonical would be blocked with a lot of things, just because they are "distro-specific".
Canonical doesn't have the expertise to create this kind of standard. They will have to do way more work, and there's no way they'll get their project done before Wayland, because Wayland is way ahead of them. Canonical could easily just create their own Wayland compositor and still call it their own, add whatever extensions they need to suit their purposes, and it would benefit everyone because we'd all be using the same standard.
Mir is goal-driven, not community-driven, what makes Mir development much faster. They don't need to wait on agreement on the community side to make things work.
Mir will be fully reusable with other DE's. Obviously, it will be designed to work with Unity, but it doesn't mean that running KDE or whatever won't be possible. What is Wayland designed for? Nothing.Last edited by dee.; 10 March 2013, 05:37 AM.
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