Running Wayland: It Works, But A Lot Of Work Remains

[curaga]

I heard FreeDOS comes without Pulse, you should like it

Would you enjoy having to edit each app's config separately to not to default to pulse?

[Ancurio]

That's not really "removing pulse", is it, when it leaves that thing on your disk, bloating up all your apps, having them try to connect to pulse by default before falling back to something else, etc etc.

Removing pulse = no trace of that thing can be found anywhere.

No disk space wasted. No time wasted in apps probing for pulse. No RAM wasted in pulse-support code.

I heard FreeDOS comes without Pulse, you should like it

[curaga]

What else even depends of PulseAudio than graphical mixers designed for it? Many applications depend on libpulse but that shouldn't be problem for anybody (or if it's what might the problem be?).

That's not really "removing pulse", is it, when it leaves that thing on your disk, bloating up all your apps, having them try to connect to pulse by default before falling back to something else, etc etc.

Removing pulse = no trace of that thing can be found anywhere.

No disk space wasted. No time wasted in apps probing for pulse. No RAM wasted in pulse-support code.

[Teho]

That means that the first somewhat Wayland-compatible release could be in summer 2013 and following the release cycle, the first fully Wayland-compatible release could be in Jan./Feb. 2014.

It's good to note that Gnome 4 is probably going to released in early 2014. KDE Frameworks 5 will be released later this year and probably KDE Workspaces and Applications 5.0 at some point of 2013 or maybe early 2014. Both sound like a good points to advertize Wayland compatibility as they allow more drastic changes. That might not be necessary but at least the schedules match up.

[Awesomeness]

This is a bad time to push Wayland.

No, it's the best time to push it. ?Now? is always the best time to push software development because then software is ready earlier rather than later.

Valve is trying to port games

So? Do you really expect that any Valve game talks to X directly?

and Windows 8 is going to alienate users (who won't have a stable OS to move to due to Wayland).

And have you any grounds to base you claim on that Wayland will be unstable once it leaves tech preview stage? No user-level transition will happen until at least a year from now. Widespread adoption is at least two years away. And no, I don't have any magical powers to look into the future. There is no need to. Just look at the roadmaps of KDE and GNOME. Both release their software bundles every six months. KDE in summer (July/August) and winter (January/February). Its 4.9 was done just recently which means that there is no way on earth to even test waters before Plasma Workspaces 4.10. That means that the first somewhat Wayland-compatible release could be in summer 2013 and following the release cycle, the first fully Wayland-compatible release could be in Jan./Feb. 2014. For GNOME the release schedule is shifted by one or two months but the point is the same.
And that's with everything being ported rapidly. If hickups occur, we could easily even see pushbacks to 2015.

By that time Windows 9 will be out. So no, if Windows 8 would actually get people to leave for Linux (wishful thinking: Vista and Ribbon-laden MS Office didn't cause switches either), they'd find everything being based on X.

...but the work of porting it is being done ? Is the goal of the port to be also 100% retro-compatible with SDL used in X ?

Who needs 100%? All SDL 2.x releases should be mostly compatible but current games are based on SDL 1.x.

[Ancurio]

...but the work of porting it is being done ? Is the goal of the port to be also 100% retro-compatible with SDL used in X ?

I don't really get what you're talking about. I don' think porting SDL to mac/osx has in any way ever affected the windows port.
Porting SDL doesn't mean you significantly change the portable codebase of it, you simply add another target.
That's the whole point of being a cross-platform toolkit.

Also, the reason why porting of different toolkits in general seems to be somewhat stagnant is simply what Wayland hasn't reached 1.0 yet,
and so it doesn't really make sense to port against an unstable protocol which might change and thus much porting hours would simply be wasted.

If I was to voluntary invest my free time so that other people could use my work while likely never saying thanks anyway,
I'd at least try to keep the amount of wasted work to a minimum.

[AJSB]

Games on Wayland won't really be possible until the SDL port is complete (as far as I know no other game toolkit has been started yet)

...but the work of porting it is being done ? Is the goal of the port to be also 100% retro-compatible with SDL used in X ?

[ShadowBane]

Games on Wayland won't really be possible until the SDL port is complete (as far as I know no other game toolkit has been started yet)

[AJSB]

BTW, anyone even tryed games on Wayland ? I'm not talking about cards games or chess, i'm talking about ETQW, Oil Rush and the likes.....i'm also talking about pure Wayland and not with xWayland assuming that you can ditch xWayland from those tests...i'm curious if it will break in any way those games....i doubt but i would like to be sure...

[Teho]

if they kept their efforts all to the X and ALSA projects , we might haven't these issues....

And you know this how? Do you work on ALSA or X.org or something?

In binary distros, no you can't, without recompiling everything that depends on it.

What else even depends of PulseAudio than graphical mixers designed for it? Many applications depend on libpulse but that shouldn't be problem for anybody (or if it's what might the problem be?).