Wayland Clients Can Now Survive Qt Wayland Crashes / Compositor Restarts

[Jaxad0127]

They care so much that they break non-KDE apps’ icons.

They're using a Gnome custom icon name (selection-mode-symbolic) and blaming KDE for not inheriting from Gnome...

[bug77]

Because Wayland is a protocol, like VNC or RDP or TCP/IP, KDE implements a Wayland-protocol-compatible Wayland compositor

X11 is a protocol, X.org is an implementation of the X11 protocol, X.org comes with some tools you take for granted.

When discussing Wayland most people are confusing it with X.org. And I don't blame them, what we needed was both a X12 and a new X.org supporting X12 and X11.

Ah, again the "it's just a protocol" cop-out. It never fails.
What i want to point out is, the "tools you take for granted" are reusable across toolkits and DEs. That doesn't seem to hold true for anything Wayland-related. There's wlroots, but it seems to cover very, very little, seeing as how major toolkits/DEs still have to fend for themselves.

[RahulSundaram]

They're using a Gnome custom icon name (selection-mode-symbolic) and blaming KDE for not inheriting from Gnome...

Desktop and applications have plenty of custom icon names and selection-mode-symbolic is also supported by several KDE themes. Themes inheriting from other themes for custom icons is very common and supported by the xdg spec. It would be a minor change to enable Breezy to inherit from Adwaita in addition to hicolor. FWIW KDE developers do appear to be willing to fix issues like this. Someone who uses Bottles in KDE should reopen https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=455325 and provide them with the information they have asked for instead of ranting here.

[murraytony]

You're effing delusional if you think we're still in Wayland's "early days". Wayland's initial release was 30 Sept. 2008. It's now 2023 in case you've lost your calendar.

You are delusional if you think I was talking about time. I'm talking about maturity, expanding into every niche that needs to be covered.

"The first 90 percent of the code accounts for the first 90 percent of the development time. The remaining 10 percent of the code accounts for the other 90 percent of the development time."

— Tom Cargill, Bell Labs

[eagleoneraptor]

And on the other hand we have absolutely the same situation in regard to Wayland compositors which reimplement a metric ton of features again and again.

Wow, if you read the linked issue carefully you understand how stupid and inconsistent is, it's criticizing the difficulty to create tons of shitty compositors similar to what happened to the ton of shitty X11 WMs in the past (because you can't have enough rough and unusable tiling WM/compositors, right?) and criticizing the fact that everything in the Wayland compositor market are basically KWin and Mutter, while also praising commercial success in a compositor like the Windows one where they don't allow any kind of variety and choice. Man, you can't have both, lol.

This is just another consequence of FOSS fragmentation, lack of leadership and commercial success. There is not any technical challenge here, the core components of the Linux desktop are implemented many times, because people like that and nobody is pouring enough money and leadership to a definitive solution.

Do you want the Linux desktop to succeed? well, the only way to do that is to turn it into a profit and make the company making profit out of it push it so hard to the masses that makes the fragmentation basically disappear while also bringing more paid devs, designers, etc, to work on the Linux desktop (and paying a nice salary that the current desktop devs deserve). Because to compete to the current commercial desktop OSes, you need a shit ton of cash. That's why the most popular Linux desktop is Chrome OS. You don't need 30 tiling compositors of 100 LoC for that, quite the contrary.

[NeoMorpheus]

The reason people use Windows is not because it is Windows, it is because of many applications that run best on it or even only on it. Autocad, Adobe Suite, MS Office, and on and on. The money Valve could put on any other OS would not modify this simple fact.

Sorry, but your comment has absolutely nothing to do with what i said.

[Laughing1]

This would be a nice feature to have in Gnome!

[oiaohm]

DWM itself very rarerly crashes and i had multiple cases in the past when gpu driver died and DWM restored all the windows when driver recovered succesfully. What people confuse with, is that DWM works well, but explorer often crashes and that one is culprit and gpu drivers (like always).

Yes major culprit for Gnome/KDE compositor crashes be it Wayland or X11 is also the GPU drivers. Yes X11 x.org server crashes lot of cases go back to the gpu driver as well.

DWM under windows can autorestart so users do not lose their work but this is part DWM and part the windows implementation of the API. X.org X11 server does not have this functionality. xpra does show this functionality could be done with X11 toolkits but it not done in X11 toolkits.

This is one of these things problems with GPU and GPU drivers are not going away. Also explorer is not the only culprit

https://zewaren.net/115.html

Also there is a problem with what people believe as well piotrj3. Notice how here people have to stop winlogin so they can kill DWM. DWM is watchdoged by winlogin.

KDE using a small watchdog process on top of the wayland port very much copies how windows gets the DWM reliability.

Lot of Windows DWM issues is long term running and it leaking memory somehow then finally crashing/terminated and the watchdog saving the day without user noticing. Explorer not being correctly watchdoged under windows does cause quite a few problems.

[avis]

Wow, if you read the linked issue carefully you understand how stupid and inconsistent is, it's criticizing the difficulty to create tons of shitty compositors similar to what happened to the ton of shitty X11 WMs in the past (because you can't have enough rough and unusable tiling WM/compositors, right?) and criticizing the fact that everything in the Wayland compositor market are basically KWin and Mutter, while also praising commercial success in a compositor like the Windows one where they don't allow any kind of variety and choice. Man, you can't have both, lol.

This is just another consequence of FOSS fragmentation, lack of leadership and commercial success. There is not any technical challenge here, the core components of the Linux desktop are implemented many times, because people like that and nobody is pouring enough money and leadership to a definitive solution.

Do you want the Linux desktop to succeed? well, the only way to do that is to turn it into a profit and make the company making profit out of it push it so hard to the masses that makes the fragmentation basically disappear while also bringing more paid devs, designers, etc, to work on the Linux desktop (and paying a nice salary that the current desktop devs deserve). Because to compete to the current commercial desktop OSes, you need a shit ton of cash. That's why the most popular Linux desktop is Chrome OS. You don't need 30 tiling compositors of 100 LoC for that, quite the contrary.

Yeah, considering that X11 window managers have nothing to do with Wayland compositors.

Wayland compositors are basically complete Xorg Server implementations. The complexity and the amount of features that need to be implemented are staggering.

Maybe start with the basics before heroically raging out about something you completely fail to understand.

[acobar]

I'm using KDE Wayland, on an NVIDIA system, every day for work. Every day I remote in to Windows systems to administer them. After work, I use it to play my games, without worrying about them being Linux native/running in Wine/native Wayland/XWayland. I have hardware accelerated video playback working in both Firefox and Chromium. There are still some small papercut issues remaining for sure, but it's quite usable and a better experience for me, otherwise I would not be using it.

Yes, you can use your computer to administer servers remotely, I do it also, but try to work remotely as a regular user and compare that with the experience of Windows RDP or Citrix clients, it is, simple put, really bad.