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Early Out Of Tree Patches Let Wine Run Natively On Wayland

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  • Early Out Of Tree Patches Let Wine Run Natively On Wayland

    Phoronix: Early Out Of Tree Patches Let Wine Run Natively On Wayland

    Not yet mainlined but there is a Git repository offering up a Wine Wayland driver implementation for letting Windows applications/games run atop a Wayland compositor without any dependence on X11/XWayland...

    http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...er-Out-Of-Tree

  • #2
    That's pretty cool, really looking forward to Wine Wayland.

    Windows games will be running natively on Wayland first before native Linux games.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Britoid View Post
      That's pretty cool, really looking forward to Wine Wayland.

      Windows games will be running natively on Wayland first before native Linux games.
      I would not call this "native", since Wine is a compatibility layer, like XWayland. This allows them to run with only one compatibility layer, Wine, instead of two, Wine+XWayland.

      Also, most Linux users are still stuck with X11.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by ALRBP View Post

        I would not call this "native", since Wine is a compatibility layer, like XWayland. This allows them to run with only one compatibility layer, Wine, instead of two, Wine+XWayland.

        Also, most Linux users are still stuck with X11.
        I mean yes you are correct, there is still a compatibility layer. I just thought it was interesting given most Linux games out there don't run natively on Wayland yet.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Britoid View Post

          I mean yes you are correct, there is still a compatibility layer. I just thought it was interesting given most Linux games out there don't run natively on Wayland yet.
          Quite a lot of them do or can, onces that use SDL or Unity for example - basically anything that abstracts the direct calls to X

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Britoid View Post
            Windows games will be running natively on Wayland first before native Linux games.
            Nah, native vydias have been running on Wayland since quite a lot - provided they use SDL2:
            https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Wayland#SDL2

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            • #7
              It looks like this is currently entirely game software focused so far. It seems it [understandably] doesn't handle multiple windows, and software that expects fine grained control over how each window is displayed. As such their github page states that "[game] Launchers are not working".

              I think a long term solution to implementing the Windows API on a pure-Wayland desktop would be to:
              • Add a new user-configurable option that allows the user to put the Windows program in one of two modes:
                1. Beautiful but imperfect mode: Normal Wayland windows are used for all windows created by the program. Any attempt by the program to use the Windows API to manipulate the window in a way that Wayland fundamentally does not and will not support will either be ignored or converted to some kind of reasonable, Wayland-oriented, substitute action. The event will also be logged.
                2. Ugly but perfect mode: A single Wayland window is created to create a virtual-machine style desktop surface which the Windows program is rendered onto. All windows of this Windows program are rendered onto that single surface: thus when the program attempts to manually reposition the window (or do other kinds of window manipulations) it will work perfectly. When the user resizes the Wayland window it will appear to the application as if the monitor resolution has changed.

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              • #8
                Not exactly. Either wine will implement a virtual desktop type of environment on top of Wayland (though this would be transparent to the end user, similar to XWayland) or Wayland would implement some of the needed features by Wine. There is even the possibility that Wayland could be forked.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by betam4x View Post
                  Not exactly. Either wine will implement a virtual desktop type of environment on top of Wayland (though this would be transparent to the end user, similar to XWayland) or Wayland would implement some of the needed features by Wine. There is even the possibility that Wayland could be forked.
                  You don't need to fork Wayland, you build protocol extensions and then try and persuade upstream to adopt those extensions.

                  Although making incompatible changes with the core Wayland protocol would be extremely stupid.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Britoid View Post

                    You don't need to fork Wayland, you build protocol extensions and then try and persuade upstream to adopt those extensions.

                    Although making incompatible changes with the core Wayland protocol would be extremely stupid.
                    Exactly.

                    I'm also hoping the majority of devs who play a key role in the Wayland protocol are going to stick to their original vision of keeping programs more subordinate to the window-manager/compositor, such that the user can get these benefits:
                    • A more centralized place to control program behavior.
                    • A more consistent user experience.
                    • Security isolation.
                    • In general it's harder for programs to be a-s-s-holes, because they are more subordinate to the will of the window-manager and thus [hopefully] the user.
                    If Wayland protocol devs & Wayland implementation devs start adding extensions to allow the Windows API to be implemented directly over the top, then the original vision will quickly be destroyed and replaced with an ugly dogs-body vision where: everyone gets to add everything they want and Wayland is a superset of all the things and Wayland has all the featurez and moar is betterer and OMG Wayland even has an awesome widely implemented Breakout protocol extension where you can minimize windows by using a paddle and ball to gradually smash them up until they are gone.

                    I don't see any signs that Wayland is going that way.

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