Gordon's Thoughts On Open-Source GPU Drivers

[pingufunkybeat]

nVidia's market share has nothing to do with this, I suggest you re-read my post, especially the second paragraph. The claim that only gaming enthusiasts would greatly benefit from nVidia's proprietary drivers is not true at all.

For instance, a low end card like GT 430 (or maybe even a cheaper card) with proprietary drivers will offer video acceleration, great power management, able to run many games, offer OpenCL support, as well as acceleration for compiz, firefox and much more. With the open source drivers the computer would need a much more powerful card to even come close to the performance, still lacking decent power management so the card will be a lot hotter and drain more power, and lacking video acceleration (wich almost anyone is interested in) so the computer would need a more powerful CPU.

Have Nvidia release the specs, and the problem will be mostly solved.

[kraftman]

And perhaps the issue is not with the closed source drivers but with a Kernel and Xorg API that changes multiple times a year.

It's a Linux not Windows or OSX where known vulnerables aren't fixed for months. Open drivers work with the every new kernel and xorg releases, so I don't believe it's so hard to make blobs working too.

[kraftman]

Hey, I'm just calling it like I see it. From a professional development standpoint, it makes Linux look more like a toy and a hobby it started out as and not a real system to target when the goal posts move every 6 months.

It rather looks like an approach to better solutions. There's LTS Kubuntu release, so you have a stable system for three years. Try the same with Windows. Its service packs break stuff very often. I am able to play some windows games on Linux using wine while they no longer launch on windows.

[kraftman]

I also smell a lot of hypocrisy here, with people flaming others for not sharing their purist views, but still cheering for "closed" companies like Unigine and Valve for considering Linux, or hail AMD for opening technical specs while still using the Catalyst driver to play aforementioned proprietary games. And if you deny any closed drivers, why are you even interested in what closed source software developers choose and do? Probably because you want to get the full potential out of that supercomputer of a GPU that AMD sells.

Driver is a part of the system while some game is not.

[kraftman]

Reading all this stuff where some people prise blobs and nvidia I wouldn't be surprised if nvidia fears AMD open source strategy. OSS drivers will give enormous advantage over nvidia blobs when they'll be mature enough. Think of Gallium etc. Amazing stuff.

[locovaca]

It's a Linux not Windows or OSX where known vulnerables aren't fixed for months. Open drivers work with the every new kernel and xorg releases, so I don't believe it's so hard to make blobs working too.

That's because they have to, they're first class members of the kernel tree, so NOT working with a new kernel would be a fail to compile/segfault situation and new kernel would possibly be delayed. Split the Radeon/Nouveau drivers out from the kernel tree and see how well they stay motivated to release in stride with kernel ABI changes.

There's no law that says that ATI/Nvidia has to provide anything to the open source community. PowerVR is a great example of that.

It rather looks like an approach to better solutions. There's LTS Kubuntu release, so you have a stable system for three years. Try the same with Windows. Its service packs break stuff very often. I am able to play some windows games on Linux using wine while they no longer launch on windows.

I do run LTS, actually. I also run Windows on my work laptop and have not had a SP break anything that I use. On the other hand, I have had LTS upgrades break Apache, MySQL, slapd, and courier, to name a few. Hell, Courier is *still* broken on LTS. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+s...ib/+bug/483170

[Plombo]

Another icculus quote

Quote from Ryan C. Gordon on LKML, November 2, 2009:

> > closed-source software
>
> Why do we even care?

Maybe you don't care, but that doesn't mean no one cares.

I am on Team Stallman. I'll take a crappy free software solution over a
high quality closed-source one, and strive to improve the free software
one until it is indisputably better. Most of my free time goes towards
this very endeavor.

I find the contrast interesting.

[kraftman]

That's because they have to, they're first class members of the kernel tree, so NOT working with a new kernel would be a fail to compile/segfault situation and new kernel would possibly be delayed. Split the Radeon/Nouveau drivers out from the kernel tree and see how well they stay motivated to release in stride with kernel ABI changes.

If someone have problems with kernel braking ABI he should blame nvidia, because they didn't open their blobs. If their drivers would be in kernel they'll be the first class members like OSS Ati drivers.

There's no law that says that ATI/Nvidia has to provide anything to the open source community. PowerVR is a great example of that.

I don't see how it is related.

I do run LTS, actually. I also run Windows on my work laptop and have not had a SP break anything that I use. On the other hand, I have had LTS upgrades break Apache, MySQL, slapd, and courier, to name a few. Hell, Courier is *still* broken on LTS. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+s...ib/+bug/483170

I didn't say you won't get into troubles using LTS, but you will have more stable (in terms of ABI) environment.

[deanjo]

Because lots of people buy hardware without having a clue, lots of people get hardware via jobs or otherwise, lots of people have PCs with no integrated video and just buy a GPU, or get it from Dell or whatever.

Yup and you would see that those customers almost always go with an IGP solution. Intel isn't #1 in graphics solutions from discreet sales after all.

[deanjo]

This crusade has always been about you trying to prevent people from having a truly open source system because of your deep conviction that nobody needs, wants, or should be allowed to use a fully open source system.

Oh please find a post where I have said "nobody needs, wants, or should be allowed to use a fully open source system."

If you cared about functionality, you'd be using your blob, or using Windows, or using your Xbox, but here you are on a Linux forum shitting on open drivers like there's not tomorrow.

So you are saying that to get a functional system it is not possible with linux?

We'll leave your blob to you, you leave the Linux decisions to RedHat, Fedora, SuSE, Debian, and the others who actually care. Stop telling those who develop Linux how they should develop it.

Not caring what the end user needs/wants has never been a good business model or road to success.