A Bounty For Gallium3D On Haiku OS

[Thatguy]

mesa was started in 1989

6 years before your first cvs snapshots.

Linux is still a giant mess.

I can say it and I don't care if it pisses of the linux zealots. If you can't take criticism it shows that the linux community is either elitist or to ignorant to know the difference.

but at least its secure.

and its funny I am a linux basher, I use linux for a great many things. Namely running my server and a few other HPC need, ands its great in that role.

the linux kernel is a nice piece of technology. Its also not a hybrid. but that doesn't make linux a operating system. that is where the problem arises'.

but if linux users and the linux community can't take the heat, they should get out of the kitchen, If microsoft behaved like the average linux evangelist they'd be at home right now pissing there pants.

For however much bashing you think linux gets MS gets it 10000X worse and they still have to answer the phone. Not act like a bunch of sniveling children whining about everything when they get called on their bullshit.

Linux must grow up and mature and come to accept that

A. many people are more correct about your OS then you are.

b. some of us who are critical have been around longer.

c . blind fiath is like a religion.

Linux is becoming a religion. its got all the attributes.

If you make a good product and showcase it, users will come. what the average distro users can't accept is that they do not have a good product.

bzzzz wrong again, you where never there or even read the source code of the original 1.0 beta February 1995 Initial release back when it was new and fresh i take it !

and funnily enough you're very link takes you to the correct and historically accurate information too

http://www.mesa3d.org/thanks.html

"Acknowledgments

The following individuals and groups are to be acknowledged for their contributions to Mesa over the years. This list is far from complete and somewhat dated, unfortunately.

Early Mesa development was done while Brian was part of the SSEC Visualization Project at the University of Wisconsin. He'd like to thank Bill Hibbard for letting him work on Mesa as part of that project. "

http://www.ssec.wisc.edu/~billh/vis.html

Mesa

You may also be interested in Mesa, which was originally developed by Brian Paul while with the SSEC Visualization Project. Mesa is a 3-D graphics library with an API which is very similar to that of OpenGL.*

To the extent that Mesa utilizes the OpenGL command syntax or state machine, it is being used with authorization from Silicon Graphics, Inc. However, the author makes no claim that Mesa is in any way a compatible replacement for OpenGL or associated with Silicon Graphics, Inc. Those who want a licensed implementaion of OpenGL should contact a licensed vendor. This software is distributed under the terms of the GNU Library General Public License, see the LICENSE file for details.

* OpenGL(R) is a registered trademark of Silicon Graphics, Inc."

[popper]

mesa was started in 1989

6 years before your first cvs snapshots.

top posting now , very bad form :S
i cut the other crap as its got no relevance on this thread , thats what the other thread AMD lies is for now apparently if you want to generally rant.

"t hatguy: mesa was started in 1989"
bzzzz wrong again, even after i gave you the facts in the very post you replied to, amazing, here's the facts again so it may sink in this time.

Kurt Akely said he started OpenGL in 1989

thats Kurt Akely and Jim Clark of Silicon Graphics, Inc, the owners and the people you had talk to for Those who wanted a licensed implementaion of OpenGL

"Biography

Kurt Akeley received a B.E.E. from the University of Delaware in 1980, and an M.S.E.E. from Stanford University in 1982. That year he joined with Jim Clark in the founding team of Silicon Graphics, Incorporated (later renamed SGI)."

as already stated Brian Paul while working for Bill Hibbard at the time wrote the original mesa 3-D graphics library code.

http://www.ssec.wisc.edu/~billh/vis.html

Mesa

You may also be interested in Mesa, which was originally developed by Brian Paul while with the SSEC Visualization Project. Mesa is a 3-D graphics library with an API which is very similar to that of OpenGL.*

To the extent that Mesa utilizes the OpenGL command syntax or state machine, it is being used with authorization from Silicon Graphics, Inc. However, the author makes no claim that Mesa is in any way a compatible replacement for OpenGL or associated with Silicon Graphics, Inc. Those who want a licensed implementaion of OpenGL should contact a licensed vendor. This software is distributed under the terms of the GNU Library General Public License, see the LICENSE file for details.

* OpenGL(R) is a registered trademark of Silicon Graphics, Inc."

as a side note for when you screw up you're frantic searching again, that's the "mesa" 3-D graphics library Not the original "Mesa", the system programming language designed at Xerox PARC in the 1970s

i used to have the original BBS message board logs covering all this once, gone now, and i cant be bothered to find the backup, so i was lazy and used goggle to refresh my memory of some events

[popper]

Hold your horses, Mr. BeOS-emulator who now also wants to borrow Gallium and is already borrowing deprecated technologies like Mesa. Oh, and a lot of deprecated GNU toolchain (GCC, command-line tools).

Here's an idea: Rename Haiku to GNU/BeOS and you have a good description of this "innovative" OS.

Wow, how original, the original BEOS was built on gcc 2.9. . Haiku is BEOS compatable and reimplements the beapi.

Again your assumptions are inccorect.

guess what ,wrong again... well maybe not totally this time

the original machine was the PPC BeBox and it made its debut in October 1995 (BeBox Dual603-66, it ran quite nice to for a developer box at the time, although a few were shipped late to the uk ) plus many developers used the CodeWarrior http://testou.free.fr/www.beatjapan....ior/index.html for BeOS,

i cant be bothered to find the original data now, or even get and grep the v1 beos dev CD's somewhere in the old CD pile's in the other room, so i wont state that Be inc used CodeWarrior for the first compiled release, so if it was GCC for that then RealNC is correct GCC is part of the GNU tool chain so GNU/BeOS or rather GNU/Haiku would be perfectly acceptable as a name.

and "Haiku is BEOS compatable and reimplements the BE API" sure, but its primary claim by definition of that fact is its POSIX compatibility , although BeOS like Linux too never got an official real Unix compliant certification like QNX and the official COMMODORE AMIGA UNIX/AMIX ports did back in the day

[Nevertime]

wow popper must be copy pasting from wikipedia! or the other way round :P

You know to much! I'm not even going to argue with you! You use this "knowledge" like its ment to prove somthing. Thatguy and me are in total unshakable agreement on this subject and we arn't going to let facts get in our way!

Linux was made in 1832 from a collection of oddly shaped fruit, stuck together by blind americans who refused to recognise chinese superiority!

Haiku however was made by the gods of the gui who in a fit of insperation looked down and said 'let there be an opensource os thats as awsome and visonary as steve jobs with a colouring book'
'..........as long as we can bribe a linux guy to fix us up with some working drivers. Not hard right??? $2000 should do?'

'Oh and let us send our faithful propit Thatguy upon the linux crowd, to preach about their misguided affections and martyr himself in the forums. Torn apart by know it alls who refuse to accept his lovely fantasy which give some kind of purpose to his life.'

[mrugiero]

mesa was started in 1989

6 years before your first cvs snapshots.

Linux is still a giant mess.

I can say it and I don't care if it pisses of the linux zealots. If you can't take criticism it shows that the linux community is either elitist or to ignorant to know the difference.

but at least its secure.

and its funny I am a linux basher, I use linux for a great many things. Namely running my server and a few other HPC need, ands its great in that role.

the linux kernel is a nice piece of technology. Its also not a hybrid. but that doesn't make linux a operating system. that is where the problem arises'.

but if linux users and the linux community can't take the heat, they should get out of the kitchen, If microsoft behaved like the average linux evangelist they'd be at home right now pissing there pants.

For however much bashing you think linux gets MS gets it 10000X worse and they still have to answer the phone. Not act like a bunch of sniveling children whining about everything when they get called on their bullshit.

Linux must grow up and mature and come to accept that

A. many people are more correct about your OS then you are.

b. some of us who are critical have been around longer.

c . blind fiath is like a religion.

Linux is becoming a religion. its got all the attributes.

If you make a good product and showcase it, users will come. what the average distro users can't accept is that they do not have a good product.

The only thing I disagree is that "it's not a good product". I mean, obviously is not the best (neither in their kind, being between the "unix like" FreeBSD, noone can say is the best, at least at code), but a "good product" is VERY relative.
As you said, it's secure, and therefore is a good product if you need security (and also, the *BSD are BETTER products if you need security). It's not a good product if you need:
ease of use (I mean, designed ease of use, but come on, I don't believe any kernel is "easy" :P).
Maintainable code, because IT IS a mess, and is in part because is monolithic (the hybrid thing is a half truth, is modular, it is not the same that being hybrid).

But, for example, GNU/Linux is one of the best shaped free (not completely, I think, but most) operating systems if we are talking of features like hardware support, variety of applications, etc.

And talking about zealots, they are everywhere, in fact I knew some Windows zealots too. And we saw here a Haiku zealot :P

[mrugiero]

The only thing I disagree is that "it's not a good product". I mean, obviously is not the best (neither in their kind, being between the "unix like" FreeBSD, noone can say is the best, at least at code), but a "good product" is VERY relative.
As you said, it's secure, and therefore is a good product if you need security (and also, the *BSD are BETTER products if you need security). It's not a good product if you need:
ease of use (I mean, designed ease of use, but come on, I don't believe any kernel is "easy" :P).
Maintainable code, because IT IS a mess, and is in part because is monolithic (the hybrid thing is a half truth, is modular, it is not the same that being hybrid).

But, for example, GNU/Linux is one of the best shaped free (not completely, I think, but most) operating systems if we are talking of features like hardware support, variety of applications, etc.

And talking about zealots, they are everywhere, in fact I knew some Windows zealots too. And we saw here a Haiku zealot :P

My edit time expired, so I quote myself to add:

I don't agree with the comment about the community either, because that generalization is based on the assumption that the community is an homogeneous mass of people, and means that a 15% zealots are equal to 100% zealots.
They are actually more notorious, because they are in every single flamewar since Linux exists, but they are not the whole community.
And about the "they are elithist or ignorants", we are all ignorants, we just ignore different things

[cb88]

@popper quit trollin'... the bounties are to speed things along as obviously there aren't going along yet are they. Even if someone is able and willing money is often needed to make taking the time to do it I mean developers need pizza just like everybody else.

And seriously Gnu/Haiku X.x nobody even calls Linux that unless they think the GPL is sacred not to mention Haiku acutally being mostly BSD/MIT code and compilable with LLVM which is also similarly licensed.

Also the first BeBoxen were not PPC but were powered by AT&T Hobbit processors if you want to get right down to it.

[mrugiero]

@popper quit trollin'... the bounties are to speed things along as obviously there aren't going along yet are they. Even if someone is able and willing money is often needed to make taking the time to do it I mean developers need pizza just like everybody else.

And seriously Gnu/Haiku X.x nobody even calls Linux that unless they think the GPL is sacred not to mention Haiku acutally being mostly BSD/MIT code and compilable with LLVM which is also similarly licensed.

Also the first BeBoxen were not PPC but were powered by AT&T Hobbit processors if you want to get right down to it.

I don't agree. Nobody calls it GNU/Linux, that's true, but we should. Linux is just a kernel. Therefore, calling my OS just "Linux" is ignore the work many projects did, which was needed to have some minimal usability. Haiku is another case, you CAN use GNU applications, but the OS itself is just Haiku (I mean, Haiku has its own GUI, and basic apps to, Linux is ONLY the kernel). Calling the OS GNU/Linux is not believing GPL is sacred, in fact, a GNU/Linux system can have proprietary software on it, and still being GNU/Linux.
However, calling GNU/Haiku is also a nonsense, being GNU=GNU is not UNIX, Haiku should be more sort of HNB=Haiku is Not BeOS :P

[Thatguy]

The only thing I disagree is that "it's not a good product". I mean, obviously is not the best (neither in their kind, being between the "unix like" FreeBSD, noone can say is the best, at least at code), but a "good product" is VERY relative.
As you said, it's secure, and therefore is a good product if you need security (and also, the *BSD are BETTER products if you need security). It's not a good product if you need:
ease of use (I mean, designed ease of use, but come on, I don't believe any kernel is "easy" :P).
Maintainable code, because IT IS a mess, and is in part because is monolithic (the hybrid thing is a half truth, is modular, it is not the same that being hybrid).

But, for example, GNU/Linux is one of the best shaped free (not completely, I think, but most) operating systems if we are talking of features like hardware support, variety of applications, etc.

And talking about zealots, they are everywhere, in fact I knew some Windows zealots too. And we saw here a Haiku zealot :P

I'm not defending haiku, I am attacking linux.

Big diffrence.

the linux kernel is buggy, just by sheer size it is inherently buggy, everything they add to the kernel " in a futile attempt to bring stability to the abi and api subsystems" adds yet more hard to find bugs.

Soon linux will reach a point of cascading fialure.

[mrugiero]

I'm not defending haiku, I am attacking linux.

Big diffrence.

the linux kernel is buggy, just by sheer size it is inherently buggy, everything they add to the kernel " in a futile attempt to bring stability to the abi and api subsystems" adds yet more hard to find bugs.

Soon linux will reach a point of cascading fialure.

Yes, I agree with that partially, but I wasn't talking about you when I said there are Haiku zealots. The Linux kernel is hard to debug by design, because of the monolithic model, noone (or noone with some criticism) denies that. I just said that the good or bad product is relative to the use you do. And if you talk about how many apps (and how many good apps) and drivers you can use with your OS, Linux is, if not the best, between the bests in the Open Source world. If we talk about stability, as I said, is not the best neither of the unix-like OS, because there are *BSD for example.