Originally posted by Sonadow
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Nouveau Driver Remains Much Slower Than NVIDIA's Official Driver
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Originally posted by Brane215 View PostWhere is documenntation about the HW product that would enable good SW development ( datasheets, register models, user manuals) ?
Why are you directly comparing project based solely on reverse engineering with the one, based on 100% manufacturers suport ?
Creative released their sound card drivers under the GPL, and what happened? Not a single person even bothered to pick up the driver and extend it to work with the newer sound cards produced by Creative.
Why should I not compare the reverse-engineered projects when the community has not even proven itself to be capable of walking the talk with vendor-provided specifications?
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Originally posted by Sonadow View PostAMD opened up their documentation, and what happened with RadeonSI? One whole year and 2D accel over GLAMOR is still not even at an acceptable level.
Also, fglrx team didn't have to live of solar energy. They got their wages for actual development.
Open source team got just smallish part of the documentation and farewell.
Creative released their sound card drivers under the GPL, and what happened? Not a single person even bothered to pick up the driver and extend it to work with the newer sound cards produced by Creative.
I don't know all details around Creatie, but IIRC they did not release all info. Just like VIA for their graphics.
When I byu some piece of HW, I expect to have drivers WITH the source and documentation for the case if I decide to check or change something. Just showing some pdf on some page ( let alone that being all needed, relevant and up-to-date docs) just isn't enough for me.
Why should I not compare the reverse-engineered projects when the community has not even proven itself to be capable of walking the talk with vendor-provided specifications?
Between them is a light year of difference in-house information, equipment availability and last but not least - MONEY.
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Originally posted by Sonadow View PostAnd the worst part? All of these can be potentially avoided if Nvidia is allowed to use DMA-BUF; DMA-BUF won't get splintered, and Linux users get feature parity with Windows users on launch day via the blob
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Originally posted by Sonadow View PostRight, and where is CrossFireX and SLi support on the open drivers?
Multi-GPU setups which were already existent way back in 2006 and still not supported with the open drivers? 6 years and still nothing from the open drivers?
C'mon, if you want to troll, troll with some intelligence. There are people with professional notebooks and desktop setups with multi-GPU configurations who have been waiting for years just to get CrossFire and SLi support from the open drivers since day 1. And these are technologies which are almost guaranteed never to come to the open drivers because no degree of reverse engineering is going to cut it.
Originally posted by Sonadow View PostJust because you don't use your computer for the kind of professional work that people in Windows take for granted does not give you the right to demand that they live without it in Linux. Neither does it give you the right to demand that businesses open their stuff. That fact that you even think that you can demand for such things shows just how much Linux users think they are entitled to when they don't even have the numbers to back their demands. If you have a market share of 50%, then perhaps those demands are valid, but 1.4%? Right, keep dreaming.
Originally posted by Sonadow View PostAnd I also don't need to mention the hypocrisy displayed over the whole 'open-source makes everything cross-platform compatible' nonsense. Open source everything so that nobody has unfair advantages? So why are there people who are in favour of Linux-specific extensions made to key pieces of a Linux distribution stack (systemd is a very good example) that makes it completely incompatible with the BSDs? Or even the religious war that BSD is some devil which should be condemned just because Linux holds the lion's share of the alternative operating system market? By that logic the whole world, and not just AMD and Nvidia, can simply condemn Linux to death because Windows holds a 70% market share of mainstream desktop operating systems. People tout open systems and cross platform compatibility while trying to defend all actions that undermine BSD compatibility when major changes are made to the Linux software stack with claims that BSD is not relevant anymore because Linux's market share dwarves it (while conveniently forgetting that Windows crushes Linux and OS X combined in the desktop OS front). Hypocrisy at its finest, no?
Originally posted by Sonadow View PostAnd all you have been doing is gloating how Nvidia cannot use DMA-BUF. Well listen up, they don't NEED to. Nvidia has already got their own proprietary form of KMS in their blob, so they sure as hell don't need to adhere to your 'standards' of how KMS should be implemented in Linux.
KMS is not asdx' standard nor is it mine or yours. It's freedesktop.org and it's an open standard that everyone can use. Even BSD. And proprietary reimplementations of open standards? Have you forgotten nvidia's randr alternative, twinview? Rotating a single screen? Sorry, not possible. Rotating all screens? Well, enjoy your graphics corruption. Or X.org crashes. I know this because I have actually tried to use a notebook with Ubuntu and an nvidia graphics card for one single application some time ago.
Originally posted by Sonadow View PostAnd last I heard, they are already in the process of recreating their own proprietary version of DMA-BUF within the blob to get Optimus working, so all that 'I-told-you-so' attitude over DMF-BUF is of no relevance anymore.
Originally posted by Sonadow View PostAnd you only have Alan Cox's inflexibility to blame for that; by forcing GPL symbols only you have ended up with two versions of it that does the same purpose, and I am going to bet on it that Nvidia's proprietary implementation of DMA-BUF will surpass the original GPL-ed version in capabilities when released.
Originally posted by Sonadow View PostI'm not blind to the benefits of open software, and anybody with half a brain can see how an ideal world where all software is open will make computing so much easier with respect to hardware support and drivers. But that world is not going to happen in my lifetime (nor the 2 generations on my estimation), so I don't see any reason to work towards it. If it's meant to happen, it will happen whether anyone likes it or not.
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SLI
Originally posted by Sonadow View PostRight, and where is CrossFireX and SLi support on the open drivers?
Multi-GPU setups which were already existent way back in 2006 and still not supported with the open drivers? 6 years and still nothing from the open drivers?
Things really can't go any faster with a single paid dev and small number of occasional contributors. Stop whining, start coding And don't say it's too difficult to get into, that's just you not really being motivated enough.
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@BO$$:
So, what you are saying is that open source driver performs WAY better than closed source for you ?
If so, why are ayou complaining ?
And maybe it is time to practice what you preach. If your mantra is all about being nice to manufacturers, why are you so stingy ? Shell out some dough for new HD7xxx. Or perhaps two. One just because you want the card that works with closed source drivers on your config and extra one just to be "nice" and score some niceness points. And see how that works for you...
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Originally posted by BO$$ View Postand I have a 3400. So I have to use the open source radeon driver. Which has baaaad performance. It sucks so much that I cannot even have a fluid desktop let alone anything 3d game.
Originally posted by BO$$ View PostAnything open source graphics driver sucks horribly on linux.
But he has apparently abandoned the thread rather than answered. What's your answer?
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Originally posted by BO$$ View PostI have a laptop. Can't change anything in it except memory.
If there was no open source drivers maybe AMD wouldn't have let go of the proprietary driver for my card.
I remember them being totally unuseable, but who knows, maybe your experiences were different.
Interestingly, similar examples were all across the board. No one cared nor be pressured to offer decent data and drivers. If what they put on the table worked for you, fine. If not, you were offered the f*** off option.
What do you mean that open source perform better? They are much worse than the proprietary blob. I could play nexuiz very well on 12.04 but on 12.10 I get around 20 fps.
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Originally posted by BO$$ View Post...
I could play nexuiz very well on 12.04 but on 12.10 I get around 20 fps.
I have hd3470m too on my t400 but haven't really ever use it(it is now disabled on bios). Other card on that laptop intel gma x4500mhd is well enough for my daily usage and it has better drivers too
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