Bickering Continues About NVIDIA Using DMA-BUF

[sheldonl]

I don't know if Linus has already taken part in the discussion but if he hasn't then I think he needs to make a decision. I wouldn't normally support closed source but he called on NVIDIA to do something and now they're trying to do the best that they reasonably can and the community is blocking it. I wouldn't be surprised if they turn around and say "well fuck you too."

It has nothing to do with Linus, he doesn't own copyright over code he didn't write.

[D0pamine]

its a legal issue the licences are incompatible and this stops stifles development - hence my dislike of blobs

if i were happy to use a proprietary system then this wouldn't bother me but then again why would I use a 'free' system with a 'non-free' component

[D0pamine]

do i forsee problems with wayland....? hahaha

[mememe]

Nvidia should just do something right now, something different of what they've done, they should at least re-think their position, they're being too counterproductive.

Is there any chances they'll change their ways and release specifications or open their driver source?

The chance that they're going to open up their driver code are next to nil, if not worse. And even if they pull an AMD and release complete enough specs for their hardware, we'll have to live with a graphics stack that not only has no 0-day support for new GPUs but also suffers from severe limitations with regard to stability, performance and feature-completeness.

[jrch2k8]

Face it, you know what I said is true, you GPL Nazis are killing Linux. Give yourselves a huge applause.

You should also stop using your LCD monitors you know, the on screen display(OSD) runs proprietary software, it's clearly not respecting your rights. Ditto with LCD TVs, microwave ovens etc.

Your motherboards runs proprietary BIOS/UEFI too, please don't use them, they don't respect your rights either.

Don't even think about going to hospitals either, all the medical equipment there runs proprietary software and don't respect your rights.

It's pretty amazing how much hypocrisy there is in the GPL Nazis here, they use proprietary software every day without throwing a huge fuss about it and yet act like they're privileged for anything.

so much fail in one post, sad so sad

1.) first microcode is not considered software and is not covered by GPL and the likes, in most coutries that is considered just part of the hardware since it doesnt interact with software but are just chip with some smart code used to initialize the hardware[turn memory on, verify certain random cache position, send bits needed for the controller for cold start, etc] <-- no one is bitching about that
2.) if you buy a tv/microwave and all the retarded examples you give which has propietary software inside[most have microcode so doesnt apply] you are accepting those conditions when you choose to buy it, so genius is not violating my rights unless it remove a right that is otorged to me by a supra license law like the constitucion or organic laws[your microwave microcode license can't remove you free speech right since its otorged by your constitucion for example]
3.) BIOS is not about license we hate it but because they are so crappy and in many cases blatantly violate rights provided by superior laws[anti monopoly laws most of the time and currently on litigation all over the world]
4.) we don't want the world to be GPL compliant retard, but if i accept the conditions established by microsoft in their license when i use windows is not normal that you are bound to follow the condition established by the linux kernel GPL license since you choose to use it or support it?? where is the hypocracy here??
5.) we are not against propietary software or microcode or bioses, as microsoft defend their license violations we as community defend our right in get our license(s) respected and in this case the specifics about DMA-BUF violate the licenses terms hence it actually do violate our rights.
6.) there is no hypocracy/gpl naizies here only retarded ppl without any knowledge just trolling for fun like you because somehow if you violate propietary licenses you should burn in hell but if you don't allow violations to the gpl license you are a nazi? especially since the kernel always has been GPL and nividia is aware of that since long ago.

here there is only ppl that say "hey this X project use this Z license that you are legally accepting and clearly state you can do A and B but not C, so please remove C or use D as alternative, so stop frigging infriging the license or prepare to get you ass sued" and either linux community or microsoft or apple will do this if you infringe their licenses because is a legal matter not technical and so far nvidia has been forced to accept those licenses conditions in other OSes.
* microsoft forbids open your DRM/WDDM/DX runtime/etc code to the public in their manufacturer license
* Apple require many funky stuff check their legal page in site
* Other industries require many other creepy things, especially military
* sometimes licenses require accept certain condition depending the country you sell and your origin goverment export laws

[crazycheese]

And even if they pull an AMD and release complete enough specs for their hardware, we'll have to live with a graphics stack that not only has no 0-day support for new GPUs but also suffers from severe limitations with regard to stability, performance and feature-completeness.

Intel proved your wrong in all points.

[RCL_]

NVidia is the only graphics vendor who puts so much effort in bringing proper drivers to the platform. I don't know their reasons, though - perhaps Linux is still being used for content creation somewhere in CAD industry which had relied on Unix since SGI times, and they have to support that. Either way, without NVidia, Linux gaming is stillborn. Linux as a desktop OS will be dead for me as well. Probably I'm a minority though... Maybe I need to create an online petition asking Alan Cox to stop blocking proper NVidia Linux drivers (binary or not) to gather more support...

Linux kernel devs need to get pragmatic - the IT industry is no more Wild West it used to be. CPUs with open documentation are becoming thing of the past and soon you'll need to sign an NDA to get CPU docs, because CPU will be integrated with GPUs. R&D is more and more expensive and technology needs to be guarded from competition by all means necessary (lawsuits being the most reliable), opensourcing it just because a bunch of hobbyists wants to be able to tinker with that is not a smart move as competition will get your costly research for free...

And as much as I hate that situation (being hobbyist myself), I kind of agree with that... This is the natural path followed by established industries (ever tried to get Coca-Cola open-source its recipe? And are you taking only "open-source" medicines?) so I predict IT to become the same as it matures. GPL hinders progress by effectively eliminating competition between "licensees" who are forced to act as if they had a single goal, and thus it is counter-innovative. Either you need exceptions from it or you are following the HURD path to obscurity.

[crazycheese]

NVidia is the only graphics vendor who puts so much effort in bringing proper drivers to the platform. I don't know their reasons, though - perhaps Linux is still being used for content creation somewhere in CAD industry which had relied on Unix since SGI times, and they have to support that. Either way, without NVidia, Linux gaming is stillborn. Linux as a desktop OS will be dead for me as well. Probably I'm a minority though... Maybe I need to create an online petition asking Alan Cox to stop blocking proper NVidia Linux drivers (binary or not) to gather more support...

Linux kernel devs need to get pragmatic - the IT industry is no more Wild West it used to be. CPUs with open documentation are becoming thing of the past and soon you'll need to sign an NDA to get CPU docs, because CPU will be integrated with GPUs. R&D is more and more expensive and technology needs to be guarded from competition by all means necessary (lawsuits being the most reliable), opensourcing it just because a bunch of hobbyists wants to be able to tinker with that is not a smart move as competition will get your costly research for free...

And as much as I hate that situation (being hobbyist myself), I kind of agree with that... This is the natural path followed by established industries (ever tried to get Coca-Cola open-source its recipe? And are you taking only "open-source" medicines?) so I predict IT to become the same as it matures. GPL hinders progress by effectively eliminating competition between "licensees" who are forced to act as if they had a single goal, and thus it is counter-innovative. Either you need exceptions from it or you are following the HURD path to obscurity.

Coca cola exposed recipe in 1970.
I am taking ONLY open source medicine. Because, I am not an idiot.
The newer hardware is opensource (ARM, Loongson).
The open drivers are progressing very good.
We see rise in open technology (OpenMP, 0MQ, HTML5) and decline of the proprietary.
Recent lawsuits are not due to NDAs, but due to patents. Patents are all "open-source" in patent registry.
Its Linux that made a revolution in mobile and ebook market.
Its BSD who was rightfully mis-used to create MacOSX from ashes.
HURD still recieves attention, but its was developed at slow rate since its start; mainly because Linux was THE kernel for GNU from version 0.1 and saw major development.

Intel currently lacks raw GPU power and has no plans to go past mid-range chip (if we believe them). Otherwise, 99% of Linux users would be using Intel. Not 50% as of now.
For those using Windows, I don't care. They have different viewpoints.

But open technology is on the rise, definitely not on decline.
For example, the Windows clone-OS ReactOS is on serious decline, due almost no one to use it. These people use either Linux now or returned to windows. This only proves that open technology has proven itself and is not cloning anyone, but living on its own now.

[Vadi]

I hope the kernel developers will come up with a solution that proprietary and open-source drivers can use to cooperate for the mixed architectures, instead of just denying any efforts by the nVidia team to make a better consumer experience on Linux happen.

[D0pamine]

NVidia is the only graphics vendor who puts so much effort in bringing proper drivers to the platform. I don't know their reasons, though - perhaps Linux is still being used for content creation somewhere in CAD industry which had relied on Unix since SGI times, and they have to support that. Either way, without NVidia, Linux gaming is stillborn. Linux as a desktop OS will be dead for me as well. Probably I'm a minority though... Maybe I need to create an online petition asking Alan Cox to stop blocking proper NVidia Linux drivers (binary or not) to gather more support...

Linux kernel devs need to get pragmatic - the IT industry is no more Wild West it used to be. CPUs with open documentation are becoming thing of the past and soon you'll need to sign an NDA to get CPU docs, because CPU will be integrated with GPUs. R&D is more and more expensive and technology needs to be guarded from competition by all means necessary (lawsuits being the most reliable), opensourcing it just because a bunch of hobbyists wants to be able to tinker with that is not a smart move as competition will get your costly research for free...

And as much as I hate that situation (being hobbyist myself), I kind of agree with that... This is the natural path followed by established industries (ever tried to get Coca-Cola open-source its recipe? And are you taking only "open-source" medicines?) so I predict IT to become the same as it matures. GPL hinders progress by effectively eliminating competition between "licensees" who are forced to act as if they had a single goal, and thus it is counter-innovative. Either you need exceptions from it or you are following the HURD path to obscurity.

proper drivers? module taints kernel!!!!! GNU/Linux gaming is stillborn? i play games no problem!!!! pragmatic? why does X,Y,Z developer have to bend over for a corporation!!! hobbyist? go on say 'Desktop market share' i dare you :P