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  • #81
    Originally posted by cj.wijtmans View Post
    Maybe electric cars wont become a reality because i dont want to spend 100k+subscriptions on driving a ticking lithium bomb.

    Why 100k+subscription? Last time I checked you get them for 1/4th of the price even without subscription.

    By the way, they are a reality. 20% of the new car registrations in EU are BEVs.
    And considering "ticking lithium bomb" -- while it is true that there were fire incidents, LiFePo reduced the risk greatly. And if that is not enough, NaPo batteries are very real. That are even magnitudes safer.
    Last edited by oleid; 20 December 2023, 04:22 PM.

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    • #82
      Originally posted by cj.wijtmans View Post
      Maybe electric cars wont become a reality because i dont want to spend 100k+subscriptions on driving a ticking lithium bomb.
      That a very long time. There is work into Sodium-ion battery because they don't have the toxic chemicals of lithium or the explosive propriety when things go wrong.

      A big coming problem is that lithium batteries are quite expensive to recycle.

      Welcome to an in-depth look at Ford's historic announcement: the resurrection of the venerable Ford Taurus, now powered by cutting-edge sodium solid battery ...


      The subscription problem I don't know how to deal with. But the ticking bomb lithium battery that something that in a few decades we may be looking back and going how were we so stupid to drive cars with that inside. Yes some car makers are already making lithium free cars using Sodium-ion instead. This is a warped car makers have worked out they can sell a car with half the range for the same money as long as they can demo the battery type used is not going to burn the car to the ground if something goes wrong for some reason. For some reason human fear burning alive and class it more important to avoid than electric car travel range.

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      • #83
        Lithium replacement is nice and all but doesnt solve energy density and i wont for another 100 years.

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        • #84
          Originally posted by oleid View Post
          By the way, they are a reality. 20% of the new car registrations in EU are BEVs.
          Most likely most of them are business cars that are subsidized and tax write offs.
          new car sales are also declined by 30% since 2019, people dont want new junk, they care about their safety and privacy.

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          • #85
            Originally posted by cj.wijtmans View Post
            new car sales are also declined by 30% since 2019, people dont want new junk, they care about their safety and privacy.
            More likely people are just suffering from sticker shock. Remember there was that little thing called SARS-CoV-2 that disrupted all the supply chains starting in 2019?

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            • #86
              Originally posted by ssokolow View Post

              More likely people are just suffering from sticker shock. Remember there was that little thing called SARS-CoV-2 that disrupted all the supply chains starting in 2019?
              and that explains the continued decline of new car sales? Well according to statistics since 2018 crisis it took 5 years for new car sales to pick up. So we can give it another year or two before new car sales will pick up again. But i am not holding my breath, cars got expensive in one way or another and people dont have much confidence in new cars, plus i wonder how many of those "new" car sales are cars produced years ago.
              Last edited by cj.wijtmans; 20 December 2023, 10:17 PM.

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              • #87
                Originally posted by cj.wijtmans View Post
                Lithium replacement is nice and all but doesnt solve energy density and i wont for another 100 years.
                Lithium is more explosive than fuel and lower density as well.
                Battery electric vehicles (BEV) and fuel cell electric vehicles (FCEV) are two zero-emissions vehicles. Although none achieve zero emissions, as discussed below.


                I would say lithium will never solve the power density neither is Sodium-ion. Low end lithium ion batteries are more expensive to make than high end Sodium-ion. Yes high end Sodom-ion have high power density than low end lithium-ion and don't have I like to explode property..

                The reality is for industrial usages like electric forklifts where exploding batteries is a really bad thing and range is less important Sodium-ion is most likely going to replace all that market.

                There are areas where fuel is not best thing those areas batteries that risk exploding are also not good things.

                I really don't see batteries in the form of lithium or sodium ever being able to replace some form of fuel in energy density. There are carbon free fuels we can use like Ammonia​ but it has it own share of problems.

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                • #88
                  Originally posted by oiaohm View Post
                  I really don't see batteries in the form of lithium or sodium ever being able to replace some form of fuel in energy density. There are carbon free fuels we can use like Ammonia​ but it has it own share of problems.
                  what makes you think carbon is a problem in the first place? anyway going way too off topic now.

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                  • #89
                    Originally posted by cj.wijtmans View Post
                    what makes you think carbon is a problem in the first place? anyway going way too off topic now.


                    There is a lot of collected data on it. We have been digging up carbon rich materials that were effectively in long term storage in the earth burning them and releasing them into the air faster than the natural take up rate to return them to long term storage. This is going to cause a problem.

                    As the 21st century progresses, rising atmospheric carbon dioxide (CO2) concentrations will cause urban and indoor levels of the gas to increase, and that may significantly reduce our basic decision-making ability and complex strategic thinking, according to a new CU Boulder-led study.

                    Yes side effect of too much CO2 in air is lower human cognitive ablity. Think about it this way who cars about global warming I am more worried that I am going to have to be driving around on road with me and everyone else effectively drunk play game of luck if we don't kill each other if we keep on letting atmosphere carbon go this way..

                    CO2 the absolute worse form of cheep booze.


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                    • #90
                      Originally posted by oiaohm View Post



                      There is a lot of collected data on it. We have been digging up carbon rich materials that were effectively in long term storage in the earth burning them and releasing them into the air faster than the natural take up rate to return them to long term storage. This is going to cause a problem.

                      As the 21st century progresses, rising atmospheric carbon dioxide (CO2) concentrations will cause urban and indoor levels of the gas to increase, and that may significantly reduce our basic decision-making ability and complex strategic thinking, according to a new CU Boulder-led study.

                      Yes side effect of too much CO2 in air is lower human cognitive ablity. Think about it this way who cars about global warming I am more worried that I am going to have to be driving around on road with me and everyone else effectively drunk play game of luck if we don't kill each other if we keep on letting atmosphere carbon go this way..

                      CO2 the absolute worse form of cheep booze.

                      talking about data.
                      1. Then why was the earth in an ice age at over 10 000 ppm co2?
                      2. Why are planets without co2 becoming warmer?
                      3. Why was there no correlation between co2 and temperature until life colonized earth?
                      4. As a scientist in the 60s already stated life(carbon) follows temperature not the other way around(well until humans become a typ 1 civ which is ways off).
                      5. The warm periods in the two previous cycles before the current cycle were warmer than it is today and already showed an upwards trend. Way before humans had any impact.
                      6. 400 to 600 ppm sounds scary but is negligible. Lets talk when we are at 1500+ ppm which is not even dangerous for all life just mildly dangerous for humans.
                      7. Co2 is not the dominant ghg not even at 10 000 ppm and has little impact on temperature. That is only 0.1%.
                      8. Co2 FUD was a scheme to implement carbon credits, basically a globalized currency that are basically energy credits.

                      believe me i was AGW as a teenager but i grew up and have seen much data and bs complex excuses that i realized i was wrong arguing for it at some point. Now we can talk about pollution. But here is the thing tires from ev and ice both produce complex carbon structures that are damaging to health. If you want to make a change then change third world countries polluting the oceans with trash and invent new tires and we can talk.
                      Last edited by cj.wijtmans; 21 December 2023, 02:25 AM.

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