AMD Reportedly Plans To Bring Mantle To Linux, Calls Mantle An Open-Source API

[Nille]

As others have said about open sourcing and API's.
FYI: An API is a set of agreements about what and how something is done, it is a form of a specification not implementation.
It is not a piece of software but a specification. Meaning an API can be open but not open source.
An API can have open source implementations that are pieces of software.

Mantle has a Hardware dependent and Hardware independent part. Everything thats not Hardware dependent has to be open. And there is still a really huge problem. There is no Shader Compiler, AMD currently use the HLSL Compiler from the DX SDK.

[Yorgos]

Well there's no gpu vendor with a reliable and fast Opencl implementation out there, just remember that AMD opencl can't compile large kernels without loosing all the performance yet.

support on nVidia's gpus is still at 1.1 from 2010 and nVidia has even problems with the latest DX versions, they do not have h/w support for the 11.1 and 11.2 versions, they support it via their driver.

on the other hand, what do you mean by fast implementation, fast compared to what? what is fast for you since the only one who cares about openCL is AMD, now Altera is supporting 1.0 and Arm cpus are heading toward this way.

[Sdar]

support on nVidia's gpus is still at 1.1 from 2010 and nVidia has even problems with the latest DX versions, they do not have h/w support for the 11.1 and 11.2 versions, they support it via their driver.

on the other hand, what do you mean by fast implementation, fast compared to what? what is fast for you since the only one who cares about openCL is AMD, now Altera is supporting 1.0 and Arm cpus are heading toward this way.

Still they have better DX performance with the latest drivers, anyway FAST opencl implementation to me is at least 2x times faster than a CPU version of the same code running on an i7 without loosing features, that sounds easy enough but it's not working at all with big or complex kernels yet.

[Dukenukemx]

No, and no or have you read the spec, an involved independent developer told, the nv should have the hw that is not within all the HD6000 and earlyer AMD GPU.

It's a vague answer from the independent developer who is working with AMD. Which do you think has a better chance of getting Mantle working on, the HD 5000/6000 cards or Nvidia's hardware? Nvidia's hardware doesn't share much of anything with any of AMD's architecture. They're all based on VLIW5. But I don't trust AMD because their business is all about selling graphic cards. Giving something like Mantle to older generation of cards isn't going to entice me to go out and buy a new GCN card. But what do you expect since there's nothing open about Mantle, and I'm forced to speculate. AMD even said that Mantle doesn't work on Xbox One and we know that uses GCN.

Games on Windows using Mantle aren't seeing massive performance boosts. So why care about it when DX12 and OpenGL5 promises similar performance gains as Mantle?

Mantle uses DirectX HLSL, so it's not entirely a new API. Though it would be interesting if Wine can take advantage of that for a performance boost.

[grndzro]

It's a vague answer from the independent developer who is working with AMD. Which do you think has a better chance of getting Mantle working on, the HD 5000/6000 cards or Nvidia's hardware? Nvidia's hardware doesn't share much of anything with any of AMD's architecture. They're all based on VLIW5. But I don't trust AMD because their business is all about selling graphic cards. Giving something like Mantle to older generation of cards isn't going to entice me to go out and buy a new GCN card. But what do you expect since there's nothing open about Mantle, and I'm forced to speculate. AMD even said that Mantle doesn't work on Xbox One and we know that uses GCN.

Games on Windows using Mantle aren't seeing massive performance boosts. So why care about it when DX12 and OpenGL5 promises similar performance gains as Mantle?

Mantle uses DirectX HLSL, so it's not entirely a new API. Though it would be interesting if Wine can take advantage of that for a performance boost.

Mantle wouldn't benefit VLIW4/5, it isn't designed for multithreaded GPU. Wouldn't work. Same with lower than Keppler also I think.

AMD has stated they will open up Mantle once it is finished. Think of BF4 and Thief as a beta test.

PS4 and XB1 are already low level optimized. Mantle or DX12 wouldn't do anything there.

Performance is dependent on the hardware. Some setups get very good boosts. At the very least the frame time reduction makes mantle worth it even on the best hardware.

You should care about Mantle because it will work on Win7. Will eventually be ported to Linux. And will share many similarities to Apple's Metal(If Apple makes it for OSX). It is a new clean API without all the crap in DX and OGL. So unless you like buying a new windows version every couple years or subscribing to the new MS subscription model you should be supporting both Mantle and OGL.

[rabcor]

It would be pretty cool if mantle is opened and Nouveau & Nvidia support would be added, that would really be game changing, no pun intended. It would wreck GL 5, DX12 and Metal if that were to happen. They would become a thing of the past blazing fast.

I know AMD and Nvidia hate each other as rivals, but if they could work together just this once... Would make all gamers (and game developers) lives much easier. If they could actually partner up and share this one product... (which in theory they should be able to if it has it's source opened)

[Dukenukemx]

You should care about Mantle because it will work on Win7. Will eventually be ported to Linux. And will share many similarities to Apple's Metal(If Apple makes it for OSX). It is a new clean API without all the crap in DX and OGL. So unless you like buying a new windows version every couple years or subscribing to the new MS subscription model you should be supporting both Mantle and OGL.

What do I care with what works with Windows 7? I have no intention to go Windows 8, or for that matter future versions of Windows. I use Windows on my gaming desktop, but I hope to replace it with Linux eventually. Look at DX10/11 where hardly any game utilities this technology. Most games are still DX9 or shader vertex model 3.0, for those that want to correct me. Until developers stop treating PC as dead last for gaming, then why worry about Mantle? Look at the fiasco with WatchDogs recently. You really think developers are going to support Mantle unless AMD gave them a bunch of money to do so? They can't be bothered with mouse controls, let alone graphics.

Best bet is OpenGL5. It's cross platform. AMD Intel and Nvidia will support it. Will absolutely work on Linux without AMD's blessing.

[grndzro]

What do I care with what works with Windows 7? I have no intention to go Windows 8, or for that matter future versions of Windows. I use Windows on my gaming desktop, but I hope to replace it with Linux eventually. Look at DX10/11 where hardly any game utilities this technology. Most games are still DX9 or shader vertex model 3.0, for those that want to correct me. Until developers stop treating PC as dead last for gaming, then why worry about Mantle? Look at the fiasco with WatchDogs recently. You really think developers are going to support Mantle unless AMD gave them a bunch of money to do so? They can't be bothered with mouse controls, let alone graphics.

Best bet is OpenGL5. It's cross platform. AMD Intel and Nvidia will support it. Will absolutely work on Linux without AMD's blessing.

So because AMD paid DICE to help develop Mantle they are paying the other studios to use it also? I guess AMD also paid for all the positive comments about working with mantle?

You seem to be comming from the viewpoint of porting games between 3 different architectures. That is not the case anymore. PC/PS4/XB1 are all x86. That simplifies the porting process considerably and allows games to be made on PC first and ported to consoles easily when compared to the nightmare of making games for x86/Cell/PPC at the same time.

AMD is not paying developers to use Mantle. They are using it because it is very similar to what DX12 will be like. Odds are Mantle will be rolled into DX12. It's the game engines that will support Mantle, not individual developers. The games will get Mantle by default as long as the engine supports it.

Mantle was made with a lot of input from developers. It's what they want. That's why MS started DX12 and Apple started metal, and why NV made those great OGL extensions.

Do you really think AMD could pay more for developers to use Mantle than MS or Intel or Nvidia could pay for them not to?

[profoundWHALE]

It's a vague answer from the independent developer who is working with AMD. Which do you think has a better chance of getting Mantle working on, the HD 5000/6000 cards or Nvidia's hardware? Nvidia's hardware doesn't share much of anything with any of AMD's architecture. They're all based on VLIW5. But I don't trust AMD because their business is all about selling graphic cards. Giving something like Mantle to older generation of cards isn't going to entice me to go out and buy a new GCN card. But what do you expect since there's nothing open about Mantle, and I'm forced to speculate. AMD even said that Mantle doesn't work on Xbox One and we know that uses GCN.

Games on Windows using Mantle aren't seeing massive performance boosts. So why care about it when DX12 and OpenGL5 promises similar performance gains as Mantle?

Mantle uses DirectX HLSL, so it's not entirely a new API. Though it would be interesting if Wine can take advantage of that for a performance boost.

Okay so just popped in to address this. What mantle means for you is you can have a cruddy dual or quad core processor with a beefy graphics card and NOT run into bottlenecks because of the CPU.

CPUs are great for transporting information around
GPUs are great for executing

If you don't have to do extra processing for the graphics BEFORE sending it to the graphics, you don't need as powerful of a processor. Someone took an AMD APU, slapped a 290X on it, ran a bench with DX11 and then with mantle. There was a HUGE improvement in performance. This will also be great for people who like recording/streaming video because often the CPU is the most important there. It's why, when adding in video streaming, AMD's 8 core FX processor actually outperformed intel's 4770 when they both had the same graphics card. (source is teksyndicate)

[Rallos Zek]

I'd love to call myself AMD GPU fan, but it won't happend ny time soon. I am using their processors, for as long as I remember, I only had intel processor once on my personal computers.(2nd gen celeron)

First of all, AMD drivers suck elephant balls, probably blue whale balls. Tests on Phoronix prove it over and over again. A stronger by means of hardware and more expensive card from AMD is worse than one from Nvidia.

LOL you believe in benchmarks from "Phoronix" a Nvidia shill site that AMD drivers are slower and are crap? Phoronix has a heavy pro Nvidia bias even though Nvidia fucks the Linux community, but this site get free goodies from your friends at Nvidia to scew bent-marks.