AMD 8.40.4 Driver -- One Bug A Day Keeps AIGLX Away

[Svartalf]

evolutionary = good driver
revolutionary = open specs

Thank you for stating that one, DrLecter...

If it's anything like the Vista OpenGL layer, I'd say it's only really evolutionary anyhow.

[Michael]

It's revolutionary

[Svartalf]

I'm a bit of a pragmatist Michael -- but (if/when) something interesting happens, I'll celebrate the win with you.....
Scotch on me even ...

Heh... What single malt do you propose? (Not that you'd be buying... I'm still doubtful of what is being represented here. I'm largely like you, I'll believe it when I see it...)

Besides -- for all the complaining folks do on this board, there's just as much whinging and complaining on the nvidia side --

I don't know, I bought the laptop I recently purchased because of the fact that ATI driver support right at the moment is pretty much the worst of the two mainline choices. I've had largely NO issues with any of my NVidia hardware and I DO beat the hell out of it (Porting games on the side and doing simulation visualization software can do that to them...).

So far, I would say that the NVidia stuff, the G80 stuff not withstanding right at the moment, is the best bet for someone needing 3D support under Linux right at this time. It largely works. The same can NOT be said of ATI's drivers right at this time. They're unstable when compared to NVidia's binary drivers. They do not always render content correctly. ATI has fielded large numbers of IGP GPUs without any T&L at all (Many of the laptop offerings just don't perform at all, and we won't even START about their "Hypermemory" capabilities under Linux... Modern games need Vertex Shader support in the hardware itself, and many of the IGP pieces just do not have it any more than the bulk of Intel's offerings.) when compared with NVidia's offerings in the same space. The drivers perform at HALF the speed the Windows drivers do, and in many aspects, ATI's OpenGL support was lackluster when compared to NVidia's support under Windows.

I would like to be able to say what you're claiming, but as a professional, doing work against that very hardware, I cannot.

And I'm not even gonna start on the stuff that gets said on intel support fora.....

Is that because of higher than they should have expectations, or is it because of an infant driver? I can't say either way because I really don't have any Intel GPU hardware past the i810 era and we all know it was intrinsically worthless out of the gate. Has anyone done decent benchmarks on the X3000 or X3100 parts?

All Michael has in hand is the non T&L hardware which is suitable for doing Beryl eye-candy, but little beyond that class of thing...

I have tried to get ready to build up a system with a motherboard with a G965 or better in the case, and have come up empty-handed in the brick and mortar space. I plan on getting in hand one shortly via mail order, but it's a little harder to impulse buy the stuff if it's not storefront... >:-)

[Michael]

All Michael has in hand is the non T&L hardware which is suitable for doing Beryl eye-candy, but little beyond that class of thing...

We do have Intel's newer IGPs in hand and will be delivering benchmarks shortly.

[Svartalf]

We do have Intel's newer IGPs in hand and will be delivering benchmarks shortly.

Awesome! I've been trying to find out, either through someone else, or the hard way for a while now- I can't wait.

[Svartalf]

It's revolutionary

Heh... Careful there, Michael. With the definition we both stated, someone MIGHT get the impression that they're going to be working more closely with the DRI team or at least Tungsten Graphics to get a better Linux driver out.

[the-me]

If anyone noticed it, fglrx seems to brake the whole google earth support: http://ati.cchtml.com/show_bug.cgi?id=774

On my desktop, the 8.40.4 release has introduced more bugs (and less performance) as it fixed.

Now I get for example at every restart / X stop this:

http://ati.cchtml.com/show_bug.cgi?id=787

Terrible

[Nicolas]

Can we hope for decent OpenGL for the next release?

I personally think Duke Nukem Forever will be released before ATI gives us a decent driver...

But I'll keep watching.

8.87: Duke Nuken Forever Edition (it works, it works!!)

[Svartalf]

Can we hope for decent OpenGL for the next release?

I personally think Duke Nukem Forever will be released before ATI gives us a decent driver...

But I'll keep watching.

8.87: Duke Nuken Forever Edition (it works, it works!!)

You know... That would be an appropriate name, if it weren't for infringements with 3D Realms (Not to mention that we don't wanna make 'em TOO upset with us... I know Michael Simms would like to have SOME chance of having them bringing a little bit of what they're offering to Linux...)

[opera]

ATI was one of the few Computer Systems companies to evolve in canada, survive and thrive. I will continue to support them as a functional part of AMD just 'cause I'm all for the 'little' guy and Intel needs the competition.

Supporting them because they're the "little guys" is like support Kim Jong-il, because he's the 'little guy' compared to Bush (yes both are very very evil, so they blend well in with a comparison between nvidia and ati).
There is a limit to when supporting a smaller company before a bigger one isn't worth it. In this case, it is when the smaller uses deprecated development models, refuses to work with the open source community etc. I have always liked to support AMD before Intel, but I'm all for intel now when they are active and highly contributing to open source, drivers, and not the least - X.org by hiring several skilled X.org-hackers.

c) I work for an organization which suffers (and believe me it IS SUFFERS) from the same evolutionary development model.

Then let it die?! That company SHOULD die if they cannot compete on modern playgrounds. Static stone-age type of aristocratic business models Will and Shall die, as we all evolve and smarter, younger, brighter companies appear with fresh ideas. There is no gain in fighting hard to keep an old horse standing.

As you will see by the end of the year, AMD is not taking an evolutionary step but a revolutionary step in embracing the GNU/Linux and alternative OS communities.

You keep telling us that, but so far, all the rest of us can relate to is what ATI has done so far. And they have had YEARS to at least try to make good Linux drivers, but they haven't come up with anything even remotely interesting yet. Even if they come up with something you call "revolutionary" one day, I'm not satisfied. It's too late. It's only as a response to Intel. What they have done, is revolutionary. It simply cannot be revolutionary again, just because ATI very very late understands that their own obsolete business model has to change.
They are slow, they are late, they aren't the first doing anything, they're not technically better than NVidia, they're not more open than Intel, and probably, they never will be best in any of these fields. They will always lay low and wait for what happens, and then react, and you, Michael, will then call them "revolutionary".
They just down-right suck.