Heroes of Newerth performance

[ZedDB]

Why would they open up their IP to an unknown with no guarantee that improvements would be made and their IP wouldn't be used in another project? Legally they would be stupid to do that, especially while that code is still in use. If someone would want to continue down this path, best approach would be to offer up a NDA compiled by a lawyer, send it to them, get their lawyers to look at it, review the review (continue loop, spend money, until completion)...

It worked well for Epic with UT99 when IIRC a modder wrote a better render in opengl than their own because they had opened up the render backend code with the SDK.
I don't really see how it would damage them to just release the source code to the opengl render .so file and a guide how to compile it. I seriously doubt that they have anything in there covered by patents/intellectual property.

[storma]

Why would they open up their IP to an unknown with no guarantee that improvements would be made and their IP wouldn't be used in another project? Legally they would be stupid to do that, especially while that code is still in use. If someone would want to continue down this path, best approach would be to offer up a NDA compiled by a lawyer, send it to them, get their lawyers to look at it, review the review (continue loop, spend money, until completion)...

Legal issues aside, it would be nice of them to do that and have faith in ZedDB that he does indeed know what he's doing. Otherwise we'll have to wait until the K2 engine is no longer in use and hope they open it up like they did with the original Savage game.

[ZedDB]

sure thats the solution AMD should pay a dev to fix the openGL renderer of the S2-engine.

that would be good marketing

While this would be really noble of them I don't think AMD could afford to hire people to fix other companies buggy/badly implemented opengl backends.
However it seems like the ones in charge over the priorities at S2 doesn't think it would be worth the money to further improve the client for mac/linux users as most of their users probably run windows.
I even went so far as to ask S2 to open up their render backend API so I could improve the render myself. As the current render backends are stored in .so/.dll files it seems like it would not be that hard to do.
But of course they wont do that either.

I don't think it will change anything even if AMD did write them a letter along the lines of:
"It has come to our attention that your opengl render backend sucks, fix it!"
But it can't hurt to try...

[ZedDB]

Do you really mean regression, ie "performance was better on configuration XYZ with an earlier version of the driver" ? If so, do you happen to remember which version showed the higher performance ?

If the "regression" is just that you expect a 4850 to be faster than a 4670 but you're not seeing that I would call it odd but not a regression.

Well the opengl render in used in savage 2 and HoN has always been inferior to the D3D one. You get the same opengl performance in windows and linux.
However it was on pair with what you got if you ran the windows client with D3D in wine before fglrx got opengl 3/4 support.
With my 4870 card I had 120 fps in the menus (max) and around 60-90 fps ingame. But after the drivers upped the opengl support from 2.1 to ~3.3 i get 60fps in the menus and ~30fps ingame and the game shutters/laggs (has mini pauses) like crazy.
Now the wine version with D3D runs smoother and i get at least 40 fps more than I get with the native version.
I've pointed this out to the S2 devs and we even had a big thread on the forums about it. But it seems like S2 wont hire a opengl programmer to rework the opengl render.

I think that Q might have a point about the opengl render using outdated stuff as it that would explain why the the fps got worse when you upped support and perhaps removed some of the legacy optimization stuff?
Perhaps it would be good if you, bridgman, could borrow one of your programmers/engineers for a short while to look into what happened between the 2.1 to 3.3 migration in the drivers and perhaps profile the HoN opengl render.

Depending on what you'll find you can perhaps send an email to the S2 staff on behalf of AMD and tell them that they need to give the opengl render some love :P
But they might perhaps ignore that also as the only updates that has come to the opengl render after the beta is to fix rendering bugs and no optimization what so ever.

IIRC the version that this happened with was 10.5, 10.4 worked fine. I even created a bug in the unofficial ati bugtracker: http://ati.cchtml.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1824
But it seems like the bug is deleted now.
I tried to stick with the 10.4 version as long as possible. But with new xorg servers and what not I couldn't do so forever.

[bridgman]

Do you really mean regression, ie "performance was better on configuration XYZ with an earlier version of the driver" ? If so, do you happen to remember which version showed the higher performance ?

If the "regression" is just that you expect a 4850 to be faster than a 4670 but you're not seeing that I would call it odd but not a regression.

[xpander]

seems to be problem with hd 4xxx series then
cuz not experiencing it with 5770
and i have much weaker cpu than Qaridarium. namely amd x2 6000+
getting solid 60 fps with tearfree enabled..huge action drops to 25 fps sometimes tho.

[bridgman]

So just to confirm, are you saying that HON running on Linux is much slower than HON running with the same OpenGL renderer on Windows with the Catalyst driver ?

Or are you comparing HON/DX/Windows with HON/OpenGL/Linux, which runs significantly different application graphics code ?

[phoronss]

It IS the GPU driver .. id like to see someone of AMD to notice this bug and try to fix it as it makes HoN experience pretty much .. you know .. bad :/



camiseta alemania futbol

[Hephasteus]

Doesn't this game force a target framerate of 30. It should fluctuate between 25ish and 35ish but instead it's putting a limit on top end and allowing the low end to sink to 15.

[Decatf]

There is (or at least was) a command line option to use the OpenGL rendering on Windows.

I remember trying it a while ago and it ran like crap. There was a thread about it on the HoN forum but I think they deleted it.