To the AMD people: Money wasted.

[eldar]

Well, I'm not going to answer anymore to this troll... This is my final answer to you, Mr James:

If you're not satisfied, and your intention is to play Windows games on Linux, why don't you simply do like most ordinary people and create a dual-boot Windows-Linux solution (Linux for common-day use, Windows for playing games / some program compatibility)? Is it too hard for you?!
Aaaah, I forgot... Maybe you don't know how to use Linux / create a dual-boot solution at all...

Cheers

Why do you think that being able to play games on Wine is possible because of some unofficial features supported by NVIDIA? Wine relies only on OpenGL and that's all. The fact that AMD chips can't cope with that only means bugs in the drivers, nothing else. Why call guy a troll, if he just expresses his frustration, and he has an example of another manufacturer that got it all right.

[evolution]

Why do you think that being able to play games on Wine is possible because of some unofficial features supported by NVIDIA? Wine relies only on OpenGL and that's all. The fact that AMD chips can't cope with that only means bugs in the drivers, nothing else. Why call guy a troll, if he just expresses his frustration, and he has an example of another manufacturer that got it all right.

Yes, but each vendor has its own way of doing OpenGL implementation... So what you're saying there isn't completely true. For many years, Wine has been more supportive of nVidia OpenGL implentation (and most people there knows it). Currently, Wine dev's are trying to solve problems related to ATI's OpenGL implementation, so, it might NOT just be a problem related to ATI drivers, but also to Wine dev's.

Cheers

[crazycheese]

None of the above. What does a normal user need a new card for other than gaming? Nothing.

Having GPU accelerate CPU operations - compiling, booting, browsing, vector gfx(adobe,svg); DVI output, multimonitor connectivity; and 3D - compiz, 3D games.

They most probably think that good drivers = more people going Linux = more people wanting open source = open source games everybody freely gets = no more development of games as the companies get zero money = no need for newer card = ATI out of business.

For those who do not see it, the above logic is bullshit.

You have no idea what opensource is and how it works do you?
Opensource is a method to make money both more efficiently(as in not staying in coffers, but working), more decentric and faster.

What you probably see as opensource, and what it is not, is part piracy and part lazyness(what most of pirates do, you included).

So when government finally is bribed by "intellectual property" owners and when it issues laws, you will go in jail for downloading any copyrighted material if you need it and cannot afford it. What will you do if microsoft doc is the only accepted format in electronic correspondence and you cannot afford buying word, but want to write a resume for a job?? What is if you are required to purchase a lot of software and pay a lot of royalties monthly to do basic things such as having basic TV and basic communications via internet? This is one part.

The next part is that a guy, using opensource software with monthly 1000 on development reason for similar result is cheaper for a company to hire, than a guy using 100,000 proprietary software per month license.

AMD is selling you hardware, which is required by software. And developing software requires SAME amount of money as developing hardware, building houses, growing food and stock trading. The only difference between opensource and proprietary is that opensource clearly distinguishes between information and matter and attempts to connect them the most efficient way for every parties, where proprietary is enslaves information in matter and seeks for the most efficient way for the slaver(owner) only. The most efficient way for the slaver is having monopoly, controlling everything including laws, controlling standarts, forcing people for no possible choice but his product and then charging them to maximum extent for no work.

The best situation would be yourself born and already own corporation money for your birth, breathing and "presence" tax. See Druuge in UQM.

To them, money is not an "oil" to make trading better, it is power to control.

A development of film incl payments for staff costs 0,50$ per person if divided by average amount of people ready to watch it. Burning a copy for each single person on DVD incl DVD-case costs no more than 0,40$. You could have legal film from Hollywood for 0,90$ each DVD, but you are paying 30$ on start and 15$ for old titles.
22$ - 0,90$ = 21,10$ pure income.
From 21,10$ pure income from each DVD, put 5$ in further marketing brainwash, 5$ in bribery for copyright laws, 2$ in making patents - the rest comes into corporation coffers.

If there were opensource development, you would pay only 0,90$ for each title if you like it to happen.

[crazycheese]

Oh really? You need a high end card to watch a movie? For programming? You compiling with your GPU? You gaming while watching blue ray vids?

My old 9600GT plays anything I throw at it. My new HD5750 is in the closet waiting for AMD......

You are able to play legit BRD movies in linux with Nvidia?
You are able to play legit copy-protected win games such as AC2 in WINE without bugs, problems and slowdowns with Nvidia?

You can compile with GPU once gcc will become ability to use opencl, as some (official) password cracking utilites already using GPU for heavy acceleration for years.

[crazycheese]

Because those guys use the cards with Windows and a driver comes with a companion disk.
Linux users get to stick their card in the closet and wait and pray for the day they will be able to use it to it's full capability.

Yes, I'm a grumpy "glass is half empty" bastard (in other words, realistic).

There is no major difference in having disc with drivers and having official driver in repository. Actually later one is more progressive - you will only need to boot in VESA once; and actually you dont even need that - kernel could boot, check hardware, report it to udev, udev would be asked by some foo, which will in turn fetch all drivers from internet and insert them into kernel live as it continues to boot.

You will only need to put hardware in, and it will be already usable and on actual stand without any manual intervention right on first boot. Working network connection as only requirement.

Btw, "half empty glass" is optimist. Realist is "glass is enough for water"

[eldar]

Yes, but each vendor has its own way of doing OpenGL implementation... So what you're saying there isn't completely true. For many years, Wine has been more supportive of nVidia OpenGL implentation (and most people there knows it). Currently, Wine dev's are trying to solve problems related to ATI's OpenGL implementation, so, it might NOT just be a problem related to ATI drivers, but also to Wine dev's.

Cheers

The only thing I can think of is they might be using NVIDIA-specific openGL extensions, but I've always thought that most of them are standardised(so the become ARB_*) or ATI has counterparts. But anyway it's good that situation get's improved. If everyone keeps buying NVIDIA, there won't be a chance for ATI cards to be supported at all.

[Mr James]

Well, I'm not going to answer anymore to this troll... This is my final answer to you, Mr James:

If you're not satisfied, and your intention is to play Windows games on Linux, why don't you simply do like most ordinary people and create a dual-boot Windows-Linux solution (Linux for common-day use, Windows for playing games / some program compatibility)? Is it too hard for you?!
Aaaah, I forgot... Maybe you don't know how to use Linux / create a dual-boot solution at all...

Cheers

I love how whenever someone disagrees with another nowadays that person calls him a troll.

No I am not satisfied and obviously if you read anything I have posted, I do know a thing or two in Linux so yeah, I can duel boot no problem. The problem is I hate windows and the associated crap that comes with it and am able to do everything I need in Linux.

No, wait. Windows is a better solution, I am a troll, and do not know how to duel boot or do anything in Linux but enjoy bitching for no reason. What are you going to do about it, little man?

[Mr James]

Why do you think that being able to play games on Wine is possible because of some unofficial features supported by NVIDIA? Wine relies only on OpenGL and that's all. The fact that AMD chips can't cope with that only means bugs in the drivers, nothing else. Why call guy a troll, if he just expresses his frustration, and he has an example of another manufacturer that got it all right.

Thank you.

[Mr James]

Having GPU accelerate CPU operations - compiling, booting, browsing, vector gfx(adobe,svg); DVI output, multimonitor connectivity; and 3D - compiz, 3D games.

I could do all that with my old card. I bought a new card for improving my gaming. I see you got gaming in your list too...

You have no idea what opensource is and how it works do you?
Opensource is a method to make money both more efficiently(as in not staying in coffers, but working), more decentric and faster.

What you probably see as opensource, and what it is not, is part piracy and part lazyness(what most of pirates do, you included).

So when government finally is bribed by "intellectual property" owners and when it issues laws, you will go in jail for downloading any copyrighted material if you need it and cannot afford it. What will you do if microsoft doc is the only accepted format in electronic correspondence and you cannot afford buying word, but want to write a resume for a job?? What is if you are required to purchase a lot of software and pay a lot of royalties monthly to do basic things such as having basic TV and basic communications via internet? This is one part.

The next part is that a guy, using opensource software with monthly 1000 on development reason for similar result is cheaper for a company to hire, than a guy using 100,000 proprietary software per month license.

AMD is selling you hardware, which is required by software. And developing software requires SAME amount of money as developing hardware, building houses, growing food and stock trading. The only difference between opensource and proprietary is that opensource clearly distinguishes between information and matter and attempts to connect them the most efficient way for every parties, where proprietary is enslaves information in matter and seeks for the most efficient way for the slaver(owner) only. The most efficient way for the slaver is having monopoly, controlling everything including laws, controlling standarts, forcing people for no possible choice but his product and then charging them to maximum extent for no work.

The best situation would be yourself born and already own corporation money for your birth, breathing and "presence" tax. See Druuge in UQM.

To them, money is not an "oil" to make trading better, it is power to control.

A development of film incl payments for staff costs 0,50$ per person if divided by average amount of people ready to watch it. Burning a copy for each single person on DVD incl DVD-case costs no more than 0,40$. You could have legal film from Hollywood for 0,90$ each DVD, but you are paying 30$ on start and 15$ for old titles.
22$ - 0,90$ = 21,10$ pure income.
From 21,10$ pure income from each DVD, put 5$ in further marketing brainwash, 5$ in bribery for copyright laws, 2$ in making patents - the rest comes into corporation coffers.

If there were opensource development, you would pay only 0,90$ for each title if you like it to happen.

Thank you for enlightening me to all that.
I'm saying that THEY PROBABLY SEE OPENSOURCE AS EASY PIRACY AND DO NOT WANT TO HELP THAT GROW. They.

[Mr James]

There is no major difference in having disc with drivers and having official driver in repository. Actually later one is more progressive - you will only need to boot in VESA once; and actually you dont even need that - kernel could boot, check hardware, report it to udev, udev would be asked by some foo, which will in turn fetch all drivers from internet and insert them into kernel live as it continues to boot.

You will only need to put hardware in, and it will be already usable and on actual stand without any manual intervention right on first boot. Working network connection as only requirement.

Btw, "half empty glass" is optimist. Realist is "glass is enough for water"

When I said "driver with a companion disk" I meant "driver already ready when you buy card".