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  • Radeon RX 5700 XT, pros and cons?

    Sorry for the rambling. Skip to the end for TL;DR

    So, let me first start off by saying that I currently have a Geforce GTX 970, and its age is starting to show. I run Linux (currently Ubuntu) exclusively, and even though I'm on the wrong OS for playing games, it turns out I've played my fair share of them without much trouble. Most recently, I've completed Witcher 3 with both expansions, and using WINE+DXVK it's been a smooth ride. I could not tell the difference between that and a game running natively on Linux, which was quite awesome. Of course I'm using Nvidia's proprietary driver, as the open source "nouveau" is not even playing in the same ballpark.

    I was a long time ATI/AMD graphics card user before switching over to NVIDIA. I had a Radeon 9700 (we're talking 2003'ish), and as that got old I switched over to a Radeon HD4870 (somewhere around 2009, I suppose). What I remember most about those days was the constant struggle with "fglrx" (FireGL and Radeon for X11?), which at the time was ATI's proprietary driver for Radeon craphics chips. There was an open source driver (radeon) available, which was good for 2D and some basic 3D, but that was about it. As I wanted 3D acceleration, I "had" to use fglrx, and my X desktop would constantly break after updates, and several popular OpenGL titles worked poorly or is some cases not at all. I remember playing games with Wine was always tricky. Even 2D applications would sometimes be excruciatingly slow. I remember being quite active on forums (mostly on rage3d.com, if I'm not mistaken) and there were always promises of "it will get better soon", "the next release will be better", "just hang on for another 6 months, you'll see" and things like that. Well, it never did, and I finally got tired of waiting and got a GTX 570 (2012'ish, I think), and have not looked back since. Or, until today. I have been trying to follow the news about AMD Radeon cards, and I keep seeing articles about development on the open source driver. The prospect of not having to bother with updating my drivers, just using what's built into the Linux distribution is a nice one. Also, I'd like to try Wayland, which is tricky using NVIDIA and their moronic stance on EGL streams vs GBM. And of course I'd like to support a company that develops open source drivers just for the sake of it!

    TL;DR part:
    So, what I'm wondering is:
    • What are YOUR experiences with using recent Radeon graphics cards in Linux? Both positive and negative, please! Extra valuable if you've also had a Geforce and can contrast it with that.
    • What is the driver situation like? Reading news on Radeon graphics cards for Linux, I get the idea that there are several competing drivers. Is that the case? What are the pros and cons of the different drivers, and how do I know which one to use? Do you still use "fglrx"?
    • Would you get a Radeon RX 5700 (XT or not) today if you were using Linux exclusively? Why?
    Thanks!
    Last edited by albatorsk; 18 August 2019, 09:30 AM.

  • #2
    The AMD open source driver was better than the fglrx or nvidia drivers 3 years ago. I witched from nvidia card because you need patches for new kernels, no way to fix bugs in closed source code and no desktop running when installing and updating the nvidia driver. IBM does bugs for AMD hardware (1) and you need fix them with motherboard bios updates and with kernel configuration. Use a latest mainline kernel and Mesa master and you are fine. Bugs are fixed fast and games works fine with my Polaris RX560, RX570 and RX 580 cards.

    1) RCU changes was made by IBM and caused Ryzen 1 to freeze the system when idle.


    Systemd needs random entropy and it did not boot with many AMD processors.

    "random-util: Eat up bad RDRAND values seen on AMD CPUs."

    HMM changes by IBM makes unstable 5.x kernel for AMD graphics.

    Last edited by debiangamer; 18 August 2019, 08:29 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by albatorsk View Post
      [*]What are YOUR experiences with using recent Radeon graphics cards in Linux? Both positive and negative, please! Extra valuable if you've also had a Geforce and can contrast it with that.
      Positive:

      - Sometimes very stable, and works well.

      Negative:

      Let me quote a post of mine:

      Originally posted by tildearrow View Post

      My stability timeline with Vega:

      - July 2017, card arrived. Next day, inserted, and then tested. No support yet, but that's OK.
      - Next day, after compiling Mesa and LLVM from Git: works, benchmarks run full-speed, playing ga- *speedometer turns on completely and machine hangs*
      ​​​​​​
      *reboot*
      ...huh?
      , playing games sorta works, but shaders are compiled wrong and it han-
      - Login to SSH, cat /sys/kernel/debug/dri/something/* > /crashinfo
      *reboot*
      - Struggles into installing AMDGPU-PRO, and after hours of messing around, it works.
      - September 2017, it's fairly stable with the proprietary driver, staying away from the open one as it still hangs and I hate it. Open StepMania, select song, play. Select song, play. Select so- *hangs*

      *reboot*
      - What the heck? How did it hang with the closed driver?!?!
      - October 2017, Mesa 17.something released. Switching to open drivers to see how it's going...
      - All good so far, fairly stable and works well. Thanks A- *opens SDL app* *hangs*.
      Oh come on you can't be serious. Any SDL apps and even ffplay can hang the card!
      *reboot, lose work*
      - April 2018, tired of hangs, upgrades kernel and Mesa. Suddenly, sound starts glitching. *rollback*
      - June 2018, says "screw it", and just accept the upgrade to 4.13. Still using a franken-AMDGPU-PRO, with DKMS driver w/DAL/DC, and a DJ controller for audio (yeah).
      - Works perfectly, games run well- oops, Mixxx is starting to render waveforms and decks wrong... Stable otherwise.
      - August 2018, upgrade to Linux 4.17. Sound works perfectly again, and Mesa does too. Great. Even kmsgrab works well. Stutters here and there but OK.
      - October 2018, upgrade to Linux 4.18. Works well.
      - February 2019, Mesa upgrade or something. Works great. I'm going to post something in the Phoro-
      *card hangs for 10 seconds*
      -n-
      *card hangs for 10 seconds*
      -ix -
      *card hangs for 10 seconds*
      -f-
      *card hangs for 10 seconds*
      *card hangs for 10 seconds*
      -oru-
      *card hangs for 10 seconds*
      -ms-
      *killall kwin_x11*
      *openbox*
      ...what was that?
      *kwin_x11 --replace*
      *card hangs for 10 seconds*
      *card hangs for 10 seconds*
      *card hangs for 10 seconds*
      *angry reboot*
      - ...what the heck was that? Now my card is hanging at random intervals?
      - March 2019, tired of the hangs, upgrade to Linux 5.0. No more hangs, I'm happy. Super stable.
      - April 2019, upgrade to Linux 5.0.6...
      *audio convolution software freezes* *audio player stalls*
      dmesg
      - Disk corruption. I thought it was already fixed?!
      - fsck, downgrade to 5.0... Phew! Never upgrading again.
      - June 2019, upgrade to Mesa 19.2... Nice, custom screen recorder still works, no hangs.
      - So today I'm going to t- *hang*
      *panics, reboot*
      - How in the heck is this possible? Why does it hang?!?!
      - July 2019, Mesa 19.2.something... let's hope this fixes hangs.
      - Records, open StepMania, play song many times, fail, fail, fail, play, fail, play, fail, pla- *hang*.
      - *reboot* Downgrading. It's August and I still fear every time I record that the thing is gonna hang.
      Originally posted by albatorsk View Post
      [*]What is the driver situation like? Reading news on Radeon graphics cards for Linux, I get the idea that there are several competing drivers. Is that the case? What are the pros and cons of the different drivers, and how do I know which one to use? Do you still use "fglrx"?
      The driver situation: There are 2 OpenGL drivers for recent AMD cards, and 3 Vulkan ones.

      Yes, it is the case.

      -- OpenGL --

      - The Advantages -

      - Mesa: Open-source. Fast. Works on any distro.
      - AMDGPU-PRO: Workstation-grade-application-qualified. Designed for stability.

      - The Disadvantages -

      - Mesa: Sometimes unstable. Might cause hangs on specific circumstances.
      - AMDGPU-PRO: Only works on specific distros. Most of them cater enterprise users.

      -- Vulkan --

      - The Advantages -

      - RADV (Mesa): Open-source, and slowly getting fast.
      - AMDVLK: None to be honest.
      - AMDGPU-PRO: Fastest.

      - The Disadvantages -

      - RADV (Mesa): Sometimes unstable and slower than other drivers.
      - AMDVLK: None.
      - AMDGPU-PRO: Only works on specific distros. Most of them cater enterprise users.

      If you are going for Mesa (which is most likely) I strongly suggest you the following:
      - If your card has been out only for a few months, I suggest you to wait at least 4 months from the card's release date before using Mesa. It gets much more stable after that point, with most of the hangs being resolved.
      - Try to stay on a version that feels stable to you.
      - If you're upgrading Mesa, libdrm or the kernel, make sure to save a list of package versions prior to the upgrade.
      - If the new version hangs, even if just once, roll back.

      Originally posted by albatorsk View Post
      [*]Would you get a Radeon RX 5700 (XT or not) today if you were using Linux exclusively? Why?
      Probably, but I always look for stability reports before buying.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by tildearrow View Post

        -- Vulkan --

        - The Disadvantages -


        - AMDGPU-PRO: Only works on specific distros. Most of them cater enterprise users.
        You can extract the vulkan portion from AMDGPU-PRO and use it with any distro.

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi guys,

          Thanks for your replies. I really appreciate them.

          I would say, given @tildearrow's experience, that sounds eerily similar to mine back when I used Radeon graphics cards all those years ago, so I think I'll hold off on this upgrade for a little while longer.

          Comment


          • #6
            I've had little to no issues in the past couple of years with AMD cards, but I have to admit they weren't exactly the latest: in fact I owned an HD7950 which still works very well, even with the amdgpu kernel driver.
            Recently I switched to an RX 570 which still works very well, even on Raptor's Power 9 ppc64le.
            I also had a Raven Ridge APU, which initially didn't work very well but ended up working well after a couple of BIOS updates on the mobo.
            My suggestion: you shouldn't have lots of issues if you stick with cards older than 3-4 months.
            ## VGA ##
            AMD: X1950XTX, HD3870, HD5870
            Intel: GMA45, HD3000 (Core i5 2500K)

            Comment


            • #7
              I own a Radeon 5700 XT. I bought it direct from AMD, and there is absolutely nothing bad about it. I did stress-test it to make sure I didn't get a buggy junker.

              There are three routes you can take with a 5700 XT on Linux:
              1) All open from distrobution (currently beta quality and you have to wait awhile until it is stablizied). I don't recomment it as of now, because it's buggy/unstable.
              2) AMDGPU-open, the open source "snapshot" provided with drivers from AMD's website. These are what I recommend, because they have been very stable and compatible too, for me at least.
              3) AMDGPU-pro, the closed source driver provided from AMD's website.
              Note: you can use parts from AMDGPU-pro in an open-source configuration (i.e. using the openCL driver).

              I did some benchmarks comparing the 5700 XT to a Vega 64.
              The test configuration is the Latest Ubuntu 18.04. Intel Core i7 processor with DDR4 ram.

              I chose vkquake because it reflects GPU performance (not CPU performance).
              Settings are 1080p resolution with 8x Multisample Antialiasing and 16 Anisotropic filtering.
              All FPS is rounded to nearest 100th.

              Vega 64:
              ---------
              Linux RADV- 1000 fps
              Linux AMDVLK- 1500 fps
              Windows 10- 500 fps

              5700 XT:
              ---------
              Linux AMDVLK- 2700 fps
              Windows 10- 2100 fps

              Needless to say, 5700 XT is a good investment!
              Hope this helps.

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