Linus Torvalds Calls NVIDIA The Worst Company Ever

[patrik]

There is no such thing as many that care about freedom.

I said nothing about freedom, but since you brought it up. <philosophical rant> I believe people do care about their freedom. It's just that they don't understand when it is taken away from them. Why would you fight for your freedom if you believe you already have it. </philosophical rant>

There is many that want to get their job done and not have to deal with installations, missing features sub par performance etc. Sales even on things that run on linux (ie android) prove that.

That is my point. The user experience would benefit greatly from Nvidia opening up their drivers. The installation would be "out of the box", missing features (that nvidia don't care about) like KMS would get fixed and performance would be equal or even better than what we get out of the blob.

Maybe I didn't understand you. Are you supporting my case or arguing against me?

[RealNC]

In the US, at least, there are laws that the car manufacturers have to allow 3rd party mechanics the ability to work on their cars. They can't force consumers to get work done only in their own shops (by restricting info on how they work).

You're free to give your NVidia card to anyone to do repairs. AMD too. I changed the cooler and fan in the past in a random shop, not affiliated to AMD.

The specs of every needed connector are available.

Now try to get the specs for the car's keys. If you try, you might go to jail. NVidia doesn't sue you, at least.

It's a LEGAL product, guys. Take it or leave it. They aren't doing anything illegal or immoral. (Well, they *do* immoral stuff in many areas, like competition and market policies and manipulating or extorting reviewers, but not disclosing register specs is not immoral nor illegal.)

[TobiSGD]

In the US, at least, there are laws that the car manufacturers have to allow 3rd party mechanics the ability to work on their cars. They can't force consumers to get work done only in their own shops (by restricting info on how they work).

Dos that mean that they have to give it away for free or are they allowed to sell the information? Also, does this include licensed third party IP?

[smitty3268]

Dos that mean that they have to give it away for free or are they allowed to sell the information? Also, does this include licensed third party IP?

I really don't know the details and I don't want to get involved in this little fight.

I just know, it was a thing, where the car manufacturers tried to keep everything a secret, so they could force everyone who bought their cars to come into their own shops, which of course were raising prices due to their monopolies.

And a bunch of politicians got upset that all these independent shops were going to have to shut down and people would lose their jobs, so they made a law to stop that.


Edit: I guess the moral of the story is that we need a bunch of people who are employed to work on the OSS drivers. If they can be located in an important election state, like Florida or Ohio, that's all the better.

[89c51]

I said nothing about freedom, but since you brought it up. <philosophical rant> I believe people do care about their freedom. It's just that they don't understand when it is taken away from them. Why would you fight for your freedom if you believe you already have it. </philosophical rant>

This has to do wtih what people perceive as freedom. Someone that knows nothing about computer programming or FOSS will not care in a way if the code is closed etc. He feels free by using the product the way he wants. But thats another subject alltogether and we ll get off topic.

That is my point. The user experience would benefit greatly from Nvidia opening up their drivers. The installation would be "out of the box", missing features (that nvidia don't care about) like KMS would get fixed and performance would be equal or even better than what we get out of the blob.

Maybe I didn't understand you. Are you supporting my case or arguing against me?

What you ask for -and i don't disagree that it would make things better for everyone- is quite impossible with the GPU companies we have now. Either for IP reasons, business practices etc etc. No company is willing to write and maintain a FOSS driver for all three OSes.

[entropy]

No company is willing to write and maintain a FOSS driver for all three OSes.

Agreed, but all the community asks for is the documentation and we will do the work!

Wait...

Bridgman can surely say a few words how that may turn out.

[89c51]

Agreed, but all the community asks for is the documentation and we will do the work!

Wait...

Bridgman can surely say a few words how that may turn out.

Again we need someone to write the driver. There are so few knowledgeable people willing to develop a free driver. Mesa needs about 20 more . AMD is kind enough to employ a few but again its not enough to have a "pro class" driver. I believe that the community must find a way to crowdfund some of its important projects.

And there are a few documents still missing.

[patrik]

The keys are the drivers, and they are given to you. Also, you know in advance that you will not get specs.

Where are the keys to my brand new Mercedes Optimus? And how come they never gave me the keys to the trunk for my BMW Geforce?
Oh crap, I thought my car analogy was spot on... both cars and computers have Windows (tm) right?

Car companies also do not disclose the proprietary technologies they develop for their cars. The car you drive has closed, proprietary tech in it. You still drive it, don't you? Your own argument works against you, because you have a very wrong idea about what your rights are. You have the right to *request* specs, but they have the right to deny that request.

The difference between you and me (and why you think my argument works against me) is that you blindly accept "your rights". Here's the truth, your rights have been given to you by a bunch of morons. Please don't accept them because you're worth more than that.

Also, don't forget that unlike car manufacturers, NVidia does not actively hinder other people from manufacturing custom keys (Nouveau).

And they don't go after Nouveau because they are really nice guys, right? They would probably loose if they took it to court anyways.

Nvidia think it is good business not releasing source code or specs. There are plenty of Linux success stories to prove them wrong. If it's a matter of 3rd party IP, then apply my arguments to the IP holder. They are protected by the flawless patent system anyways

[JanC]

Where are the keys to my brand new Mercedes Optimus? And how come they never gave me the keys to the trunk for my BMW Geforce?
Oh crap, I thought my car analogy was spot on... both cars and computers have Windows (tm) right?

Well, a BMW actually runs on linux... at least to some degree.

[D0pamine]

does this settle the nvidia/amd war that has raged on these forums for so long?


on a plus - there was an interesting thread on getting hdmi audio using the radeon driver on north island amd gpus... and only slightly hijacked by fanbois