NVIDIA Releases Another 180.xx Beta Driver

[sylware]

That should be an issue at all, if the FOSS developers are up to the task then they should not have to worry about someone forking and improving it.

Don't agree, see darwin/macos case as an exemple. BSD is not good protection enough. GPL only, even AGPL. It's a matter of personnal choice and beliefs. But it comes down to lock my GPL siblings and me out of the developement of the new graphic stack (I wanted to code on nouveau project but the answer was no since I would have provided Linux GPL code).

And I'm saying let the FOSS community first PROVE that they are up to the task before ragging on a close source solutions that have a proven track record of performing better then the open solutions.

Again first the FOSS community has to prove that they can even pull off such a task. Up until this date they have not.

There is nothing to prove. Again you do not want to understand: we don't care about proprietary drivers. We want "optimal" GPL drivers. And to do so we need the hardware programming specifications for all mainstream GPUs, then nvidias. It'll take the time needed:Linux did not become Linux in one day, then in order to loose as less time as possible, the earlier we get the specs, the better.

Bugs happen in open and closed. It's a fact of life. freedesktop has an excellent report tabulator generate your own reports and you will see that there are hundreds unresolved bugs with foss drivers even with the chipsets that have full documentation. Some of them are even dating back close to 5 years ago.

Software has bugs, we agree. The proprietary drivers have many and are a mess for direct rendering in a composited desktop. I had to switch to indirect rendering and then I lost the vsync.

[sylware]

ok where is this thread going to?

let's look at reality and present. as of today, the only real working driver that really does what a GPU driver should do, is the NVIDIA blob driver. AMD/Intel drivers have nothing got to do with the stable/powerful/complete NVIDIA driver.

now you can say anything you want, but this is a fact and there isn't much to say on this.

That thread for some and me seems to evolve around:
- the hardware programming specifications goind public in order to program GPL drivers properly for nvidia GPUs. nvidia is the last of the mainstream GPUs manufacturers that has not released the hardware programming specifications.
- the blob (latest) is a mess using direct rendering in a composited desktop(seems to be related to 2500x1600 desktop size, but it's not confirmed). Additionnaly, switching to indirect rendering does not provide vsync.

[deanjo]

Don't agree, see darwin/macos case as an exemple. BSD is not good protection enough. GPL only, even AGPL. It's a matter of personnal choice and beliefs. But it comes down to lock my GPL siblings and me out of the developement of the new graphic stack (I wanted to code on nouveau project but the answer was no since I would have provided Linux GPL code).

And that's their right. It's their project.

There is nothing to prove. Again you do not want to understand: we don't care about proprietary drivers. We want "optimal" GPL drivers. And to do so we need the hardware programming specifications for all mainstream GPUs, then nvidias. It'll take the time needed:Linux did not become Linux in one day, then in order to loose as less time as possible, the earlier we get the specs, the better.

So your saying that nvidia lack of releasing programming specifications is holding back GPL development with other already available, fully documented GPU's? I don't think so. Like I've said before, show first that the community is able to achieve such lofty goals first with what they have and then take on a new challenge.

Software has bugs, we agree. The proprietary drivers have many and are a mess for direct rendering in a composited desktop. I had to switch to indirect rendering and then I lost the vsync.

There are just as many bugs in the FOSS drivers as there is in the blobs, again if not more. You had to switch to indirect rendering, fortunately a majority of blob users don't have to do that and enjoy pain free same day features and support on their brand new cards.

[sylware]

And that's their right. It's their project.

I respect their choice and I don't try to find ways I can use to imped their work. That's why if code there is from me, it will be another driver. But we still can share the knowledge of reverse engineering. So there is a lot of common ground.

So your saying that nvidia lack of releasing programming specifications is holding back GPL development with other already available, fully documented GPU's? I don't think so. Like I've said before, show first that the community is able to achieve such lofty goals first with what they have and then take on a new challenge.

We are talking about nvidia GPUs. Having full hardware programming specifications of AMD and Intel GPUs won't help me program nvidia GPUs. Then "...lack of releasing programming specifications is holding back " nvidia drivers "GPL development..."
Yes, indeed.

There are just as many bugs in the FOSS drivers as there is in the blobs, again if not more. You had to switch to indirect rendering, fortunately a majority of blob users don't have to do that and enjoy pain free same day features and support on their brand new cards.

hum... that would be amazing support (I wonder why I'm pushing for GPL drivers, really I wonder...).

Let's focus also on the issue: direct rendering in a composited desktop has bugs using the proprietary blob. Is there a place where I can report the issue and expect it to be fixed?

[Dragoran]

First of all, there is no 180.15 drivers or 167.07 for that fact.

Second, the mailing lists, forums, etc are full of OSS driver issues as welll for other cards. Propriety closed drivers still offer the better performance and features then open drivers for cards that have both regardless of the vender. FOSS has yet to prove that they can deliver on providing a reliable, top performance driver in video.

There was a 169.07 beta driver.
The reason why it took so long to fix this corruption issue is that the nvidia guys couldn't easily reproduce it (was talking with them on IRC) once they where able to reliable reproduce it they fixed it,

[sylware]

There was a 169.07 beta driver.
The reason why it took so long to fix this corruption issue is that the nvidia guys couldn't easily reproduce it (was talking with them on IRC) once they where able to reliable reproduce it they fixed it,

Great, which IRC network and which channel?
I'm going to help them reproduce the issue: I currently have 3 differents systems having the bugs.

[Janusz11]

Using the opensource driver for apps such as those is equivelent to giving oneself a bikini wax treatment to ones genetailia every time one of those apps are loaded.

* Laughs his ass off *


Mate, you just made my day!


Well, and to contribute in some form to this thread: I have yet to experience any problem with my nVidia card. I'm absolutely happy with it- and I know what I'm talking about: I have just replaced my ATi Radeon HD4870 with a GeForce GTX260 OC Maxcore. And the first one was a pain in the neck compared to the GeForce.

Do I care that nVidia do not give away the specs of their cards to enable people to hack a open source driver? Nope! Its their decision and the closed one is working fine for me.

So, to nVidia I may say thanks and keep up the good work!

And to you all here I say: Merry Christmas and have a jolly good time!

[deanjo]

Let's focus also on the issue: direct rendering in a composited desktop has bugs using the proprietary blob. Is there a place where I can report the issue and expect it to be fixed?

You gripe about not having nvidia not fixing bugs but yet you have not filed a bug report? Email a detailed bug report to [email protected] as stated on the driver download page.

When emailing [email protected], please attach an nvidia-bug-report.log, which is generated by running "nvidia-bug-report.sh".

How can you seriously gripe about poor support when you don't even use the resources provided?

[DeepDayze]

7900 GS here and no issues so far...

Now why bash on nVidia when ATI is far worse?

[bulletxt]

ahahah you make me laugh! you are wining for an issue with resolution 2600xxxx??? do you want me to list the 230 page known bugs of AMD/Intel driver? do you want me to list all features/implementation NVIDIA has and AMD/intel don't? what is this a joke? do you want me to list the 10000 pages of bugs(excluding the known ones) of AMD/Intel?

oh come on people.....if I continue reading this thread I'll start believing cows can fly.