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System76 Thelio Ramps Up AI & Creator Performance With New AMD Ryzen Threadripper CPUs

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  • #11
    *shakes his head at all the nonsensical comments*

    These workstations aren't designed for the mythical deep pocketed enthusiasts with short attention spans. If you wouldn't buy this product, then this product isn't for you. Lack of knowledge for who it's for doesn't mean it doesn't have a target audience. Bling is irrelevant outside of getting gullible PC gamers to buy crap because it has fancy LEDs and some illusion of quality because "gamer" designation. None of you are what OEM system builders like System76 are building and selling these systems for and to. Majors & Megas are designed and being sold to labs and businesses where they need either major compute resources or major multi-threaded IO capability, but don't really need very large HPC/supercomputing setups. Who would buy these? A former employer for one. She needs in-house number crunching capability way beyond that of a typical PC, but has remote access to supercomputer clusters at the US nat'l labs. That's inconvenient if all you want to do is run some Monte Carlo simulations or crunch the previous night's sensor harness test run. Whereas those simulations once took weeks to run "back in the day" on a DEC Alpha, they'll run in an hour or so on a Mega, and 512 GB of RAM is definitely enough to load the entire data set from a test run into RAM. Likewise, an employer before her would be pleased as punch to run crystal growth statistical simulations under his desk because it's limited by both parallelism and available system RAM. He can run the simulations & visualize the results locally instead of sending it off to an academic HPC cluster he may have to wait for time on. Tax payers pay for those research programs mostly through government agencies like the NSF in the US. Yet, there's plenty of cases where private engineering & research firms would want this intermediate step between normal PC workstation & HPC farm. System76 sells package deals. Time is money and no one outside of Google or Amazon wants their engineering or IT teams fiddling around building computers when they can just buy a turn key solution, load their test & in-house software on it, verify the results, and get on with their real work. For the open source crowd, you might see a System76 Major for build farms like FreeBSD's Poudriere, OpenSUSE's Build Service, etc. These are often funded by donations. Sometimes these are hand built (with the risk of unforeseen compatibility & stability headaches), but if you want warranty service, you pretty much have to go with an OEM designed and built workstation. I'd rather have some contract hire from the OEM's business/enterprise support group come fix the problem in a couple of hours rather than me spend all that time + more on the phone or more commonly days of back and forth e'mails with enthusiast grade parts vendors who keep refusing to admit a problem. I have better things to do.

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    • #12
      Originally posted by stormcrow View Post
      I have better things to do.
      Like not using any spacing or formatting at all?

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      • #13
        Originally posted by sophisticles View Post

        Thar's exactly my point. Right now they offer nothing unique, I can walk into a Microcenter and buy the parts to make a system as i see fit.

        But if they took a page out of Apple's playbook they may be able to sell a few systems,

        Apple for years offered systems that cost a shitload of money but performed worse than the x86 counterparts. Even when Apple went with Intel, Apple's computers still usually performed worse than a system that a end user could build himself for less money.

        But what Apple had was some of the most beautiful cases you ever saw.

        The iLamps are legendary for a reason, they are absolutely gorgeous.

        The square iMac were/are a thing of beauty with some of the nicest displays you ever saw.

        I remember a friend of mine buying a G5 iMac brand new years ago and making fun of him for spending so much money on a system that was slower than a similarly priced x86.

        Then i went over his house and saw the system in person, i remember sitting in front of the iMac, he had those great Apple speakers, and we downloaded The Troggs "Love Is All Around" and all I could think is I have to have one of these.

        Go into an Apple store and look at one of the new iMacs and tell me which system the average buyer would rather have.
        Apple's iMac customers and Microcenter customers are completely irrelevant. They aren't System76's customers. System76 is competing with Dell, HP, HPE, Lenovo business/professional or enterprise class divisions by having a specific niche in offering Linux desktops for those businesses that want that for whatever reasons. You will not find those customers in the Apple store, Microcenter, nor any other consumer grade storefront. Get it through your head, YOU AREN'T THEIR CUSTOMER nor is anyone like you. You're comparing apples and oranges, Inspiron vs. Optiplex, Yoga vs. ThinkStation, or worse jury-rigged in your Microcenter example versus PowerEdge. They aren't comparable. What you seemingly having a block on is that businesses and institutions don't want jury-rigged systems. They want tested solutions ready-to-go with minimal downtime with contract support available at call. This is the classic mistake the inexperienced make in the IT support world. Business solutions are expensive because there are actual humans that have to be paid to build, test, and support those solutions after sale.

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        • #14
          This system doesn't compete with Mac Studio or Pro. It competes with something like the Dell Precision 7875 and it will be used for AI development on Linux, not CAD/CAM, as no one in AI uses Windows. The value System76 brings is known Linux driver and firmware expertise (System76 designed HP's DevOne for them) and a solid thermal solution for people whose time is valuable and don't want to be futzing with water-cooling DIY PCs.

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          • #15
            If anyone here thinks that they can make a successful business out of releasing a proprietary, closed source desktop environment and operating system in the year of 2024, go right ahead. You will not get very far because few will want to use it. Without the influence of a monolith like Apple or Microsoft, you will not be able to a convince anyone that it's worth investing into your platform over any of the existing platforms. Inability to access source code is a liability, not a strength.

            Those who purchase System76 hardware are not interested in buying into yet another proprietary platform. They are here for the first class Linux support, and all that the open source ecosystem has to offer. They will tell this person with a "business background" that they can take their business and shove it where the sun doesn't shine.​ Instead, they will be shopping for a machine that has deep integration with open source software from the firmware to the desktop environment. And what better than getting a machine from a company that produces both the firmware and the desktop environment?
            Last edited by mmstick; 09 January 2024, 08:35 PM.

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            • #16
              Originally posted by fazalmajid View Post
              This system doesn't compete with Mac Studio or Pro. It competes with something like the Dell Precision 7875 and it will be used for AI development on Linux, not CAD/CAM, as no one in AI uses Windows. The value System76 brings is known Linux driver and firmware expertise (System76 designed HP's DevOne for them) and a solid thermal solution for people whose time is valuable and don't want to be futzing with water-cooling DIY PCs.
              You mean the system that HP discontinued because they couldn't sell any because there is zero demand for such a product?

              I guess I was wrong then.



              Also no one in AI uses Windows?



              The Windows AI Platform enables the ML community to build and deploy AI powered experiences on the breadth of Windows devices. This developer blog provides in-depth looks at new and upcoming Windows AI features, customer success stories, and educational material to help developers get started.


              Windows AI Studio provides tools and a model catalog to help jumpstart local AI development and deployment on Windows. Currently available via preview as a VS Code extension.


              The 2024 Windows release is rumored to have AI in everything from its graphical user interface to its command line.


              By the way, I know that for those MS tools to work you need WSL installed but if the rumors about the 2024 release of Windows are true, people that want to make money better warn up to Windows real fast.

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              • #17
                Originally posted by mmstick View Post
                And what better than getting a machine from a company that produces both the firmware and the desktop environment?
                Do you have Kool Aid left?

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                • #18
                  Originally posted by sophisticles View Post

                  Do you have Kool Aid left?
                  Did you have a stroke?

                  You mean the system that HP discontinued because they couldn't sell any because there is zero demand for such a product?
                  The HP Dev One was not discontinued. It was a limited run product to begin with, and they sold out of stock quicker than expected. All machines were produced before the first laptop was shipped. They may choose to work on the HP Dev Two at any point in the future, but they're likely waiting for the economy to get better.

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                  • #19
                    Originally posted by sophisticles View Post
                    Do you know where the flaw in your theory is? Of course you don't, because if you did you would not have written what you did.
                    The Rust DE they are creating is GPL'd and they have already stated that they plan on releasing PoP_OS+Rust DE for free the same way that they offer PoP_OS for download now.
                    And if this Rust DE is any good, within 90 days we will have a Fedora spin, a Ubuntu spin, it will show up in all the repos and just like now when you do not have to spend any money to use PoP_OS you will not have to spend a dime to use it.
                    You claim you have 2 TR systems. Assume that you learn from Michael's review that the new Rust DE is great, fantastic, best Linux DE available,
                    Are you going to spend thousands buying a new TR system from System76 just to use the DE or are you going going to install it on your current system and call it a day?
                    So people talk about them, so what?
                    No one is going to spend thousands of dollars to buy a system when the main selling point can be had for free.
                    i really do not get your point i am the best example of a customer perfectly fit to then

                    and the proof is i already have 2 threadripper systems i already only use linux and of course i already like rust and would support a rust based desktop.

                    and of course we have a attention based economy thats why we talk about System76 systems all the time so what will happen if i want to buy a threadripper next time ? well maybe i just to to their website and click buy buy buy ???

                    "The Rust DE they are creating is GPL'd"

                    i would not use a Rust DE what is not GPL... why should i use closed source DE's ??

                    "Are you going to spend thousands buying a new TR system from System76 just to use the DE or are you going going to install it on your current system and call it a day?"

                    i only do install it on my old systems because right now i do not need new computers.

                    "No one is going to spend thousands of dollars to buy a system when the main selling point can be had for free."

                    you really don't get it if they make it closed source no one will use it people only use their stuff because it is opensource.
                    Phantom circuit Sequence Reducer Dyslexia

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                    • #20
                      @mmstick,

                      Don't bother justifying yourself to these kinds of people

                      He's or she's just a troll that love to sh!t on people accomplishments for reaction and we gave him too much already...

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