KDE Software Compilation 4.5 Released

[pingufunkybeat]

Python is a high level language, which means unnessecary additional CPU and power consumption solely because the developper wants an easyser language. Given that C++ can be used to do anything that you would need Python for (except for rapid prototyping) it means that the developper chooses it because he or she can't code in C++.

Dude, have you ever tried doing regexp or string manipulation in C++?

There is a time and place for everything. I love C and C++ to death, but for some purposes, it's masochism.

[7oby]

KDE 4.5 blur effect and ATI hardware

My co-worker had a similar problem on his laptop with some ATI card and closed-source FGLRX driver. What fixed it for him was going into Desktop Effects settings, untick the box for desktop effects to disable them, hit Apply, and then reenable desktop effects. Since then all is working fine for him even with FGLRX.

This didn't help in my case. Only disabling the blur effect completely. Interestingly the desktop is slow even if you don't see any blur effect, but just have the effect enabled.

In the meantime I found evidence that the blur effect indeed stresses the graphics stack. It's an effect the requires fully programmable shaders:

http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2010/06/prblems-with-desktop-effects-in-rc1/

unfortunatly more information is only available in german here:

http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2010/06/freude-mit-mesa/

and unfortunately it seems KDE core developers only care about the 3D stack they use and effects don't get tested on different hardware (intel, nVidia, ATI) and software (Mesa based, closed source OpenGL)

The KDE community has plans to utilize OpenGL 3.x effects:

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=ODQ1Ng

The code paths in the 3D stack that KDE is using seem to be pretty unique and maybe unsuitable. It's not the first time effects slow down the entire system to unusable framerates / screen refreshes:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fglrx-installer/+bug/568988

I have the feeling KDE lacks a lot of optimization with everything that's related to compositing and usage of 3D hardware/software.

[liam]

Compile a function to calculate PI to C once, then let that C function run forever 'till you're out of RAM or anything.

Doesn't convince me

It should, but if you insist on not using a high level language you better drop your c++ compiler and brush up on your intel assembly!

[pingufunkybeat]

Guys, for simple loops and calculations, any language should have roughly the same speed, as long as it's compiled at some point (as python is).

There is a huge number of people in the scientific community using numpy for really complex calculations. Numpy is written in C, but lots of calculations are made in python calling on the relevant functions. It really doesn't matter much for speed.

The advantage of a lower level language like C is that you handle memory and there is no higher-level language overhead, like better type checking, automatic allocation and garbage collection, etc. etc. If all you do is multiply numbers, then the advantage is not huge.

Nobody is going to develop an OS kernel in Python or Ruby. But they are perfectly fine for building GUIs, scripting, string manipulation and regexps, etc. All the heavy duty stuff is provided by the standard lib and programmed in a lower-level language and compiled into machine code anyway. Whether your for loop is in python or C is not the most important consideration.

[nanonyme]

Meh, doesn't everyone in scientific communities use Fortran anyway?

[V!NCENT]

Meh, doesn't everyone in scientific communities use Fortran anyway?

Which version?

[kraftman]

...but I would assume that if your drivers can't handle the compositing, and the cpu is too slow, then it might be disabled by default. However, as far as I can recall it has always been enabled by default with my 8400GS.

Best/Liam

No, my drivers can handle compositions quite well. I have it enabled in KDE and in Gnome, but only with Compiz.

[gilboa]

Hi,

I am using Fedora 13 is there a guide somewhere that shows how to update KDE to the latest version?

Thanks a lot,
Sebastian

The KDE-redhat project [1] (The staging area for the KDE version of Fedora) already has KDE 4.5 SC in its unstable tree. (I'm using it now)

- Gilboa
[1] http://kde-redhat.sourceforge.net/

[liam]

No, my drivers can handle compositions quite well. I have it enabled in KDE and in Gnome, but only with Compiz.

Are you using a blob or mesa? If the later then your stack might not have the necessary extensions. IIRC, Gnome Shell devs fairly recently submitted a request for a couple of new extensions. I'm fairly certain they've been accepted and pulled...

If you are using a blob, who knows?

Best/Liam

[liam]

OK, I've been running KDE 4.5 for awhile now, so here are my feelings.

It is the most stable KDE I've ever used, but still is somewhat quirky (we had a few desktop freezes).
There are some nice ideas, especially with KWin, which I found to be the most impressive part of the desktop.
Dragon is not very good. The interface doesn't fit, especially for something that is supposed to be part of the KDE core apps (which, BTW, are all I installed), and I had problems with mkv files. I assume it is using Xine so I would hazard that the problem lay in the app itself.
The system tray is interesting. I like how it notifies you and then keeps the message, but shows it again only when asked, then it shows a queue of messages.
There are some nice uses of animation throughout the desktop that enhance usability, IMHO, and I would like to see them used even more.
The main menu is bad, IMHO. It is only usable if you use the text search, otherwise it is just too awkward.
I really like the new layout for the system settings. They've finally(? this is the first time I've noticed it so I assume) gotten rid of the tree view (at least, by default).
I would like a work flexible way of defining KWin actions ( I was looking to enable the present windows plugin upon movement of the pointer to a corner of the screen, but I only saw a few plugins that were offered to set to a screen section).

Great release!

As a Gnome, I am seriously impressed with scrubbing KDE has done, while also adding some new features.

Best/Liam