Debian Still Debating Systemd vs. Upstart Init System

[Akka]

Look like KDE soon have a hard dependency on systemd if you use wayland.
I also get the impression they plan to replace their userspace init script with systemd and only use their old home-grown userspace init as a fallback with less functionality (mostly for non linux)
With other word, soon we have the same situation with kde as with gnome. If you don't use systemd you loose functionality.

[Brane215]

I hate that we can't edit our comments after a page refresh!!!! Grrr

Anyways none of this matters to me, I am integrating Luajit into my Runit fork so I can script my run scripts in Lua
and call external C functions and use C data structures via the Luajit FFI library.

Lightweight, works on everything no Dependence's. Problem Solved.

So, how is this so much leaner than systemd ?

And even if it is leaner in the sense of few kb of program image, why should this matter on anything even resembling useable machine with useable amount of memory ?

Why should your solution be so much more useable for majority of users ?

I don't know a first thing about Lua and I personally don't really find the idea of learning yet another language just for stratup scripts especially attractive.

[Attent?ter]

First I reread my comment and I found that it sound harsh. Sorry for that!

Also I'm a Debian developer, its independence was (and still is), among other things, the most valuable "feature" when I chose this Linux distro ≅10 years ago, but you must admit that the whole Linux world has changed.
It is clearly impossible to run a serious Linux distro today without packaging pieces of code backed by one (or more) big company (especially in core stuff), so to me it is clear that we (Debian) are not fully independent toward those
companies?

The GPL makes you free from the companies. Now on the other hand, the "CLA" does not look at what Canonical, is doing to Linux Mint.

"I personally talked to the legal department at Canonical (for other reasons, they're telling us we need a license to use their binary packages) and it is clear they are confused about LMDE and Mint. They don't know what repositories we're using and they don't know what we're doing."

the original fee was in the hundreds of thousands pounds

http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20131209#qa

[corebob]

First I reread my comment and I found that it sound harsh. Sorry for that!

Also I'm a Debian developer, its independence was (and still is), among other things, the most valuable "feature" when I chose this Linux distro ≅10 years ago, but you must admit that the whole Linux world has changed.
It is clearly impossible to run a serious Linux distro today without packaging pieces of code backed by one (or more) big company (especially in core stuff), so to me it is clear that we (Debian) are not fully independent toward those
companies?

No offence taken.

There will always be companies around that pulls the wagon. As long as a project is open source and can be forked without legal issues, no real harm has been done in my opinion.

[CTown]

Almost every distribution has already switched to Systemd. The biggest distribution not using Systemd besides Debian and Debian-based distributions is Gentoo, who is using OpenRC. Why is Gentoo using OpenRC, because it was created by a Gentoo/FreeBSD developer! OpenRC was made for compatibility between a Linux version of a project and its FreeBSD version. Not only that, Gentoo already got the art of “not using Systemd” down pat. However, Gentoo already did all the work on making an init compatible with Linux and BSD, why not use the work? Not only that, but remember what happened to GCC on FreeBSD. It was replaced by the first available alternative that was not under the GPL. I know this next sentence is only speculation but: The FreeBSD people who most likely try to move on to launchd not the GPL-licensed Upstart.

What features does Upstart contain that make it a possible contender over OpenRC (a project which was created for the same needs that Debian now has)? Also, how similar is the userspace between Debian/Linux and Debian/kFreeBSD at this point? Would it really break Debian to use multiple init systems on two completely separate kernels?

Another issue I do not understand is the need to hate on Systemd for doing so much; its not a monolithic project but it is made of several binaries. No one hates on Linux Torvalds because the Linux kernel is monolithic! In fact, it makes me wonder how the Linux kernel was treated before it became the main open-sourced kernel!

[brosis]

Well I have a d**k too, but it doesn't mean I'm one.
Life tip: if you want to describe a soft approach, use soft. Do not use an arbitrary group in which an unknown proportion of individuals act using said approach. This applies for any group (with the exception of the "soft approaching people" group), and to any characteristic.

Neither am I, the only thing real is your stereotype towards my thoughts, which is awkward and wrong at same time.
Dude, and thanks for the life tips, but - as I mentioned before - they are not applicable to my original ratiocination. Nothing to heal here.

I don't learn how to behave inside society based upon externally predefined chicken society rules within specified time zone. I observe, meditate on death, learn by those who did same for thousands of years before us. The stereotype you resonated, which you define as sexism, is a kind of illness outside of my mind state. Just as in joke:
"Doctor, help me! Everywhere I touch, it HURTS!" "My gosh, friend, its not world hurting, its just your finger broken.."
I am deeply sorry for those women, whose life circumstances lead them to this state, but the wounds are to be healed and precident is to be prevented; not the pain be applied everywhere, where it shares even slight simularity. I described above what where it leads to, and this is wrong way. Only dead fish swims with the flow. Happy new year!

[profoundWHALE]

Since this is still going...

Here's what I suggest. OpenRC for a temporary/permanent replacement so there's more time to consider systemd and upstart.
systemd problems: lots of work
upstart problems: work, and canonical licensing
openrc problems: slower

So just implement OpenRC and be done with this babbling. As far as cons go, it has the least.

EDIT:
[OffTopic]
Brosis and anyone arguing with him are all being immature, end of story. It was one stupid reply, don't lose your shirt over it.
[/OffTopic]

[zester]

Since this is still going...

EDIT:
[OffTopic]
Brosis and anyone arguing with him are all being immature, end of story. It was one stupid reply, don't lose your shirt over it.
[/OffTopic]

Why do I get the impression that you said that with a lisp?

[GreatEmerald]

OpenRC doesn't have much documentation at all, and the point of this change is first and foremost to get rid of the whole shell script business. OpenRC is slightly better than sysvinit, but so slightly that it's just not worth the effort to switch to it.

[endman]

I wonder who was such stupid to support kfreebsd in Debian? It was their biggest mistake.

I'm telling you, Debian should kill those responsible along with their friends and families.
Line them all up against a wall a shoot.