Mark Shuttleworth Declares Mir A Performance Win

[TheBlackCat]

I was talking about OpenGL, not Open GL ES. Currently Wayland cannot into full Open GL.

Weston uses OpenGL ES, but wayland doesn't care what clients use. And in fact there is no fundamental reason Weston can't use OpenGL itself, it is just that OpenGL depends on too much of the Xorg stack on Linux so they advise against it.

[giselher]

I was talking about OpenGL, not Open GL ES. Currently Wayland cannot into full Open GL.

Of course it can. The mpv video player backend I wrote uses full OpenGL 3.1 for the wayland backend.

EDIT: Here an undeniable proof: https://github.com/mpv-player/mpv/bl...wayland.c#L110
OpenGL ES would be EGL_OPENGL_ES_BIT

[Calinou]

You mean corrupted like this?

https://plus.google.com/108668411027851722546/posts/jKSkoxeZeGN

Also running on radeon. If Mir only really works on Intel Graphics it's one mega fail!

Well, look at PulseAudio: if you don't have HT, expect insane sound latency.

[mrugiero]

I deleted a previous post because I figured the crash it mentioned was *my* mistake, I forgot to update part of the stack.
Now, got Xubuntu on XMir to boot. At the price of having two mouse pointers, out of sync.

PS: And while trying to report the bug and be a good citizen, I noticed the monstrous slowness I get compared to X.org (but this distro version is slower in general than 12.10 anyway). And I'm not overreacting, I actually mean that in a decent computer (not state of the art, but can run some games even with the open source drivers), having only a terminal window open I get a latency in the order of two to ten seconds.

[Nextweek]

Mir is currently in Ubuntu 13.10, working in action. You can download the daily build and use it NOW. Where is Wayland? I hear talk for years but nothing in action. Rebecca Black Linux....lol?

Your statement shows your bigotry.

https://launchpad.net/~xorg-edgers/+archive/ppa/+index?batch=75&memo=75&start=75

If you like running nightly display stacks by Canonical, you should also be testing xorg-edgers for Xorg updates. It has Wayland 1.0.5 in it.

Software is great in that there is no need for religious wars. Each application can be measured and tested on each of its merits. At the moment the only proven good thing about Mir is that it brings diversity to the open source stack. Whether that is productive in the long term is unknown. All other comments are moot.

[chrisb]

No, because it's never going to have a big adoption rate outside of Ubuntu. And nobody outside of Ubuntu really cares about Ubuntu anymore... over the years, there's been so much antagonism and deceit that few upstream projects seem to have any desire to work with them.

"I'm doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones."

"Of course 5 years from now that will be different, but 5 years from now everyone will be running free GNU on their 200 MIPS, 64M SPARCstation-5."

"last april when I started the thing, I didn't think anybody would actually want to use it."

Predicting the future is difficult. A lot of people flamed Linus for going off and doing his own thing instead of working on Hurd. And he didn't use a microkernel.

"If the GNU kernel had been ready last spring, I'd not have bothered to even start my project: the fact is that it wasn't and still isn't."

Sounds familiar.

[mrugiero]

"I'm doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones."

"Of course 5 years from now that will be different, but 5 years from now everyone will be running free GNU on their 200 MIPS, 64M SPARCstation-5."

"last april when I started the thing, I didn't think anybody would actually want to use it."

Predicting the future is difficult. A lot of people flamed Linus for going off and doing his own thing instead of working on Hurd. And he didn't use a microkernel.

"If the GNU kernel had been ready last spring, I'd not have bothered to even start my project: the fact is that it wasn't and still isn't."

Sounds familiar.

Yes. Except that Mir sounds like the Hurd of this story. "Everyone will run this on 2014"...

[mrugiero]

Now that I finished reporting the double pointer, I'll post some results on memory consumption.
This only includes parts of the desktop over that use over 5MiB on the given configuration, in decreasing order, measured by xfce4-taskmanager.

Xubuntu on XMir
xfdesktop 28MiB
xfce4-panel 21MiB
Thunar --daemon 20MiB
xfce4-session 14MiB
xfce4-indicator-plugin 13MiB
xfwm4 12MiB
xfce4-power-manager 10MiB
xfce4-notifyd 5MiB

Xubuntu on X.org
xfce4-panel 20MiB
xfdesktop 17MiB
xfce4-indicator-plugin 13MiB
xfce4-session 12MiB
xfwm4 12MiB
xfce4-power-manager 9MiB
Thunar --daemon 8MiB
xfsettingsd 8MiB
xfce4-notifyd 5MiB

[V10lator]

Dreams:

already feels that it's smoother than with X.

His (Intel-based) system feels "smoother" than it did pre-Mir, but there were also other non-Mir package changes that could be responsible.

Good benchmarking: Different systems (software, not hardware) and feelings...

According to his top watching, Xorg and Compiz are now using less memory and fewer CPU cycles while running under Mir compared to when Xorg was banging on the hardware directly.

How to measure CPU cycles with top? Is top good for measuring memory? Wasn't there some issues with caches / shared memory?

Truth:

having only a terminal window open I get a latency in the order of two to ten seconds.

Xubuntu on XMir
xfdesktop 28MiB
xfce4-panel 21MiB
Thunar --daemon 20MiB
xfce4-session 14MiB
xfce4-indicator-plugin 13MiB
xfwm4 12MiB
xfce4-power-manager 10MiB
xfce4-notifyd 5MiB

Xubuntu on X.org
xfce4-panel 20MiB
xfdesktop 17MiB
xfce4-indicator-plugin 13MiB
xfce4-session 12MiB
xfwm4 12MiB
xfce4-power-manager 9MiB
Thunar --daemon 8MiB
xfsettingsd 8MiB
xfce4-notifyd 5MiB

That's somehow funny and sad at the same time.

for some reason i see wayland dominating the desktop side and Mir competing with surfaceflinger in the mobile sector[canonical priority for sure, after all make profit with linux desktop is not something you can achieve in a year], so most likely both will survive in their natural enviroment

I see Wayland on the Linux desktop and mobile sector as well as on tablets and embedded systems. That's what it was written for and we already have plans to use it in all of these sectors.
I see Mir on Ubuntu only (desktop/tablet/mobile).
I see surfaceflinger either on Android only or dying.

[Ferdinand]

I know Wayland started everything & Mir forked it, kinda a dick thing to do, but welcome to open source! People fork things and make them better and/or the way they want. Isn't this a fundamental part of open source?? When did Linux turn communist and you can only use what you're told to?

Canonical could have joined forces with wayland. Instead they make an incompatible version. That is not a fundamental part of open source. That is just stupid.