LWJGL 3.3.3 Released With Updated Bindings, GraalVM Native Image Support

[markg85]

Offtopic: I'm forced to learn Java and I hate it with passion. Any advice? This is Karma...

Yeah. Quit your job.
No joke. If you're forced to learn java you'll very likely not have a good job.

Look for C++ or learn Rust. Specifically Rust is a growing language with a bright future.

[caligula]

I know this post is sarcastic but I legitimately can't tell what your point is.

My point was, the latest version of Java fixes many of the old issues with game development. For instance, the ZGC collector is one of the best GCs ever made. Ridiculously low latency, which is great for games. The foreign function interface is a lot more useful. Fibers make it easy to develop e.g. large scale game servers. It's also a lot different from Python and Ruby which are the two slowest "real" languages in use today. Yes, bash is even slower, but I haven't heard of anyone using it for game dev. The biggest issue with Java is that the game dev frameworks aren't as refined.

[stevecrox]

Despite your good intentions, it sounds like desperate justification about what Java is.

It makes C++ mess look beautiful in comparison. Add Oracle to the mix and there's the perfect nightmare.

Offtopic: I'm forced to learn Java and I hate it with passion. Any advice? This is Karma...

The answer is get over yourself and stop spewing nonsense.

Learn a build management system like Apache Maven or Gradle and start learning to check Apache projects if you need a to do something.

Almost all dependencies will be written against the oldest JDK they can be. You will find lots of libraries were written against 1.4 (released 2002) or 1.6 (released 2006) with many shifting to 1.8 (released 2014) .

So if your running 1.8 almost every dependency you pull down will work.

11 (released 2019) and 17 (released 2021) have added some really cool features so some libraries have decided to jump.

So planning to stay on the latest JDK LTS (e.g. upgrade every 2-4 years) means you will never be limited on the dependencies you can use.

I mean Spring 5 is being maintained (1.6) and updated literally because Spring 6 made the jump to 17.

[caligula]

Almost all dependencies will be written against the oldest JDK they can be. You will find lots of libraries were written against 1.4 (released 2002) or 1.6 (released 2006) with many shifting to 1.8 (released 2014) .

TBH I haven't seen that many libraries that are still compatible with 1.4 or 1.6. Maybe some obsolete ones. You also need to use old compilers to build those libraries because e.g javac 16 refuses to build Java 1.0 - Java 1.5 sources. It only supports source version down to 1.6.

11 (released 2019) and 17 (released 2021) have added some really cool features so some libraries have decided to jump.

There are even more cool features in 21, which will be released in 2 days.

[Jabberwocky]

This is one of my favorite libs in the mid 2000s.

Lightweight and Java, two words that never go hand-in-hand.

Which is sad because performance wise Java is quite on par with C++ (see this for example). The feeling of it (java) being slow is much more attributed to it being a gigantic resource hug, slow to start and these days a pain to even install. To add to this, the Sun takeover by Oracle (many years ago by now) thoroughly fucked java. I don't if it's because of them (Oracle) but the result is many "active language versions" making it difficult to run projects as each project seems to require a different java version.

It's all relative. You had Java Monkey Engine that was the heavy weight batteries included all in one package and LWJGL that was the simple interface.

That said, I still partially agree with you about lightweight going hand in hand with Java

[caligula]

That said, I still partially agree with you about lightweight going hand in hand with Java

OTOH modern AAA games can have executables in the range of hundreds of megabytes. The size of the assets can be hundreds of gigabytes. On top of that we have procedurally generated assets and intermediate caches for compiled shader and other code.

[ClosedSource]

Yeah. Quit your job.
No joke. If you're forced to learn java you'll very likely not have a good job.

Look for C++ or learn Rust. Specifically Rust is a growing language with a bright future.

This is not how you pick a job. If you are able to use a tool proficiently as a good as anyone else, you have a pleasant working place, and your job allows for long term safe career progression, then why not?

[mb_q]

Java also has this strict policy of abstracting away the host environment, which suits games well, increasing their reliability and portability despite their usually low quality ad hoc code.

[markg85]

This is not how you pick a job. If you are able to use a tool proficiently as a good as anyone else, you have a pleasant working place, and your job allows for long term safe career progression, then why not?

That's not true either

My post was written with the intent that the one i was responding too didn't like java and had to learn it. With that in mind: quit the job is the best possible advice imho.

What your talking about is job satisfaction and how good you are at a given language. You are entirely right in your assessment of that but it just unrelated as we simply don't know those details.

[vein]

This is one of my favorite libs in the mid 2000s.



It's all relative. You had Java Monkey Engine that was the heavy weight batteries included all in one package and LWJGL that was the simple interface.

That said, I still partially agree with you about lightweight going hand in hand with Java

Hey... I'll have you know that jMonkeyEngine is still alive and thriving!

https://jmonkeyengine.org/

And on topic. The new Lts version of Java is released today with really nice stuff. For instance I love the pattern matching ideas derived directly from erlang.

We are running spring boot apps natively compiled with graalvm and now with upcoming spring boot 3.2 we can automatically utilize the fibers in our code. I think oracle is really making java the best choice for Middleware applications, sine it is fast to develop, easily maintained and blazingly fast in production. Hats off and big thanks.