Blender 4.1 Will Further Expand Linux's CPU Rendering Performance Lead Over Windows

[Svyatko]

Blender 4.0 is slower than 3.6.
Blender 4.0 GPU rendering is slower on Linux - see https://opendata.blender.org/benchma...lender_version

Nvidia 3060 Ti: https://opendata.blender.org/benchma...lender_version

AMD 7900XTX: https://opendata.blender.org/benchma...lender_version

ILL Blender works faster on WIndows when using APU with iGPU, because AMD has no support for ROCm on APU with Linux.

[stormcrow]

I guess once again I need to be the voice of reason.
... bunch of crap...

How about a dose of reality with "reason". Most people don't use CPU rendering pipelines in Blender if they can accelerate it with their GPU. GPU accelerated pipelines outperform CPU pipelines. This means the only time CPU rendering matters is when GPU processing fails for whatever reason (there's a couple of cases where certain functions don't use GPUs regardless of vendor or only specific types of GPUs). But, it really doesn't matter for the vast majority of Blender's users which platform outperforms the others in CPU rendering because no one uses it for long without good reason. They'll just grab any given functional GPU they can get their hands on and never look back:

https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/latest/render/cycles/gpu_rendering.html

I might point out that Blender claims to support even AMD's APUs in Linux for GPU acceleration of the rendering pipeline. I don't own a system with an APU, so I can't comment on how well that works.

This isn't about licensing bias. It's about the functional limitations of platforms and the real use patterns of Blender's users. Linux is the historical home of Blender. It's original owner built it for Linux. However, it's opened up over time and supports other platforms, and supports them well (even using Metal when running on Macs). However, again, most people don't use CPU rendering because it's slow in comparison to GPU rendering regardless of the platform.

[sophisticles]

Right now huge pages are supported by compilers for x86-64, and not for ARM.

What's the excuse with Windows and Blender for Intel based Macs?

[qarium]

I guess once again I need to be the voice of reason.
Let's assume that Windows sucks and Linux is great, then what is the excuse why this improvement can't be included in the Mac version of Blender?
The reason why this change only seems to apply to the Linux version is because that's the way the developers want it. Blender is GPL, Linux is GPL and Windows and Mac are not..
The developers want to keep propagating the myth of Linux superiority so they concentrate their efforts on the Linux version.

Linux devs implement Windows NT kernel APIs in the linux kernel to speed up windows games in wine.

but microsoft can not do the same to speed up Blender3D on Windows ?
also apple is free to do the same in the MACOS kernel.
also your your claim that it is because blender is GPL and the linux kernel is GPL is nonsense Blender is completely separate and the linux kernel does not implement any blender specific functionality.

also your claim that its a linux version windows user can run it with WSL and WSL2 ...

[Panix]

Blender 4.0 is slower than 3.6.
Blender 4.0 GPU rendering is slower on Linux - see https://opendata.blender.org/benchma...lender_version

Nvidia 3060 Ti: https://opendata.blender.org/benchma...lender_version

AMD 7900XTX: https://opendata.blender.org/benchma...lender_version

ILL Blender works faster on WIndows when using APU with iGPU, because AMD has no support for ROCm on APU with Linux.

AMD in Blender is trash both on Windows and in Linux. Where's that article? Also, the ppl on here connected with AMD or employed with AMD avoid this topic.
HIP is meh - and only somewhat on the same level as CUDA - for the newer cards. It still can't utilize the ray tracing acceleration - HIP-RT either doesn't work or is still in 'experimental' - where most ppl claim it is nowhere near Optix of Nvidia cards.

Once again - AMD is garbage in Linux - and in Windows too - except if you are gaming, then knock yourself out and buy a $1500+ gpu for just gaming.

[Panix]

How about a dose of reality with "reason". Most people don't use CPU rendering pipelines in Blender if they can accelerate it with their GPU. GPU accelerated pipelines outperform CPU pipelines. This means the only time CPU rendering matters is when GPU processing fails for whatever reason (there's a couple of cases where certain functions don't use GPUs regardless of vendor or only specific types of GPUs). But, it really doesn't matter for the vast majority of Blender's users which platform outperforms the others in CPU rendering because no one uses it for long without good reason. They'll just grab any given functional GPU they can get their hands on and never look back:

https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/latest/render/cycles/gpu_rendering.html

I might point out that Blender claims to support even AMD's APUs in Linux for GPU acceleration of the rendering pipeline. I don't own a system with an APU, so I can't comment on how well that works.

This isn't about licensing bias. It's about the functional limitations of platforms and the real use patterns of Blender's users. Linux is the historical home of Blender. It's original owner built it for Linux. However, it's opened up over time and supports other platforms, and supports them well (even using Metal when running on Macs). However, again, most people don't use CPU rendering because it's slow in comparison to GPU rendering regardless of the platform.

It's a distraction to evade focus away from how much AMD sucks in Blender and how the features/performance blows.

[qarium]

AMD in Blender is trash both on Windows and in Linux. Where's that article? Also, the ppl on here connected with AMD or employed with AMD avoid this topic.
HIP is meh - and only somewhat on the same level as CUDA - for the newer cards. It still can't utilize the ray tracing acceleration - HIP-RT either doesn't work or is still in 'experimental' - where most ppl claim it is nowhere near Optix of Nvidia cards.
Once again - AMD is garbage in Linux - and in Windows too - except if you are gaming, then knock yourself out and buy a $1500+ gpu for just gaming.

why do you mix CUDA and OptiX together ? Blender in HIP backend mode works perfect on my Vega64 and its not a "newer card" like you claim.

keep in mind that OptiX is not the same output as CPU backend or CUDA or HIP... if it is not the same output can you compare it ?

I don't think so.

[unis_torvalds]

I guess once again I need to be the voice of reason.

Let's assume that Windows sucks and Linux is great, then what is the excuse why this improvement can't be included in the Mac version of Blender?

The reason why this change only seems to apply to the Linux version is because that's the way the developers want it. Blender is GPL, Linux is GPL and Windows and Mac are not..

The developers want to keep propagating the myth of Linux superiority so they concentrate their efforts on the Linux version.

That is fine because in the grand scheme no one cares.

Movies made with Blender:

Spring, Alike, I Lost My Body, Next-Gen, The Missing Scarf, Hero, Agent 327, Darrel, LightHouse, Cosmos Laundromat, Tears of Steel, a few more, you can see them here:

https://studio.blender.org/films/

Not bad, nothing you will be seeing on the big screen or that generates any cash, but not bad.

Movies made with Cinema4D:

Spiderman 3, Ironman 3, Pacific Rim, Doom, The Girl with the Drogan Tattoo, the list goes on and on:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinema_4D

Movies made with Modo:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modo_(software)#:~:text=Modo%20was%20used%20in%20t he,Man%2C%20and%20Wall%2DE.

Movies made with Maya:

https://www.imdb.com/list/ls068256477/

That's really Blender's legacy, it is used to create pet projects that do not generate a dime, in the case of Alike it took an animation student 5 years to create a short film.

The commercial products are used to create movies that collectively have generated billions of dollars worldwide and directly and indirectly led to the employment of tens of thousands of people.

So well done Blender team.

You realize you're conflating the operating system and the app, right? Blender also runs on Windows and Maya is officially supported on Linux. So comparing the box office of different DCC software does not support an argument about bias with regards to the host operating system.

EDIT: This is actually a fascinating example of what Aristotle called 'ignoratio elenchi.'

[sophisticles]

Linux devs implement Windows NT kernel APIs in the linux kernel to speed up windows games in wine.

This is so funny, in a sad way,

Not to mention it's complete nonsense, just a string of technobabble that says nothing.

LOL!

[Panix]

why do you mix CUDA and OptiX together ? Blender in HIP backend mode works perfect on my Vega64 and its not a "newer card" like you claim.

keep in mind that OptiX is not the same output as CPU backend or CUDA or HIP... if it is not the same output can you compare it ?

I don't think so.

Most ppl don't use the CPU for Blender - you know that. You can buy an expensive Threadripper....

You know I was talking about HIP performance vs Optix - since, Nvidia has moved from using CUDA (which you could still use, in theory) to Optix - so, using the ray tracing acceleration. Optix w/ even previous gen Nvidia cards smoke the current gen flagship AMD gpus in Blender right now. AMD / Blender was striding to 'officially' implement ray tracing for AMD gpus since Blender ver. 3.5 and here we are, talking about Blender version 4.1 now. Pretty sad.