Originally posted by starshipeleven
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SysVinit 2.90 Released With Fixes & Better Support For Newer Compilers
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Originally posted by trek View Postmay be too old for you, but runit is the reimplementation of daemontools, required by qmail
I'm pretty sure I installed it in Debian Woody and I was sure I did not change the init at all. But at this point I'm not sure anymore.
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Originally posted by starshipeleven View Postdid Openrc and runit even exist in 1999? qmail was used with sysv back then.
netqmail (which is the updated version) has a systemd unit, and before that it also had a sysv script https://packages.debian.org/jessie/qmail
1997-2001 daemontools Yes there are disputes on when that classed as functional. Yes 1999 with qmail you saw daemontools around qmail trying to address sysvinit limitations.
runit 2004
Upstart 2006
Openrc 2007
systemd is 2010
GPL sysvinit is somewhere around 1992.
For a long time ever few years someone attempted to write a new init system. Majority have disappeared into history. Yes qmail developers have been known to try quite a few of them.
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Originally posted by Bsdisbetter View PostComing from environments that are unix-lke it breaks every rule imaginable, from the hijacking of pid 1
to core dump 'management'. Having to debug code was horrid. Having to spend hours reading up on where systemd hides core dumps
So yes, mr passive aggresive, I do have issues reading documentation and learning how to specify 400 options in order to read a simple log.
Main difference is that you can use journalctl arguments to filter stuff instead, which is faster, much faster if you have a ton of logs.
Oh and go learn about syslog forwarding - try reading sone documentation.
change ForwardToSyslog= to "yes" in /etc/systemd/journald.conf, then systemctl restart systemd-journald
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Originally posted by trek View Post
qmail?
netqmail (which is the updated version) has a systemd unit, and before that it also had a sysv script https://packages.debian.org/jessie/qmail
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Originally posted by Bsdisbetter View Post
Let me reiterate for those who have trouble understanding, i dont care what others think of it, i only care about my exposure to it. In an enterprise environment having to work on a systemd server WAS a nightmare. Coming from environments that are unix-lke it breaks every rule imaginable, from the hijacking of pid 1 to core dump 'management'. Having to debug code was horrid. Having to spend hours reading up on where systemd hides core dumps and the commands used to extract/view etc them is time wasting in the extreme. Similarly binary logs are laughable (and broke our audit rules to boot). So some maintainers of a distro like it, more likely because it's common than it's great, doesnt make it great for all. The average click & point user doesnt care anymore than a windows user does of svrman.exe.
Some of us get paid to fix problems and when they occur on linux systems running systemd i baulk at doing them. I simply dont have the time to spend hours reading countless documents to accomplish a task on any non-systemd system that could take me minutes.
So yes, mr passive aggresive, I do have issues reading documentation and learning how to specify 400 options in order to read a simple log.
Oh and go learn about syslog forwarding - try reading sone documentation.
I found systemd no worse than changing from sysvinit Linux to freebsd and their bsd init. Both required a lot of documentation reading. I guess you were not taking care of a mix of BSD, Solaris and Linux.
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Originally posted by starshipeleven View PostIt proves that the distro maintainers, (the people who actually care the most about their distro and the time they spend working on it, have decided to use it.
To the contrary of most users that just take and don't understand, the maintainer know and are invested in the distro.
you have issues reading documentation?
What do you mean with "forward them"?
Some of us get paid to fix problems and when they occur on linux systems running systemd i baulk at doing them. I simply dont have the time to spend hours reading countless documents to accomplish a task on any non-systemd system that could take me minutes.
So yes, mr passive aggresive, I do have issues reading documentation and learning how to specify 400 options in order to read a simple log.
Oh and go learn about syslog forwarding - try reading sone documentation.
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Originally posted by nomadewolf View PostBut, i do believe in the Linux philosophy: do one thing, and do it well.
And systemd does not abide by that philosophy.
If systemd does not abide to "do one thing, and do it well", then neither GNU coreutils do.
All i'm calling out (and many others. maybe not all) is for systemd to be just an Init System. Everything else should be it's own project.
And, with that 'simple' change, i would (gladly) use SystemD. The difference being: gladly, becasue it's already 'my' init system.Last edited by starshipeleven; 20 June 2018, 03:37 PM.
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