ReactOS May Begin Heavily Using Wine Code

[RealNC]

I asked on Firefox forum some time ago and someone said Firefox 3.6 should be much better on Linux then previous versions, so I believe RealNC is right.

I am using FF 3.6 RC2 right now and indeed it feels much faster. I did not benchmark it against Windows, but I guess I'll do.

And about PGO: who on earth has time to do that :P

[deanjo]

I asked on Firefox forum some time ago and someone said Firefox 3.6 should be much better on Linux then previous versions, so I believe RealNC is right.

Did you look at the linked thread? Better yes, but still far behind the windows build of minefield.

[kraftman]

Haha got some benchmarked PGO linux builds to back that statement up?

I asked on Firefox forum some time ago and someone said Firefox 3.6 should be much better on Linux then previous versions, so I believe RealNC is right.

[XorEaxEax]

Linux Firefox in inherently slower than Windows Firefox. Optimization has nothing to do with it. It's because some code is different between platforms and the Linux specific code doesn't get as much attention as the Windows one.

Well optimization does have 'something' to do with it. The difference between using PGO and not using PGO can be quite big (typically 10-20% for me).

Back on topic, if win32 subsystem is developing slower than the rest of the ReactOS project then I'd say that using Wine to 'emulate' rather than replicate win32 is a smart move.

[deanjo]

Those tests are not from a current Firefox. In the comments it is stated that this discrepancy may have been fixed in Firefox 3.1 (now 3.5). I'd like to see new tests... maybe something for PTS?

Current enough for you?

http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21264

Yes FF in win still pummels the linux version.

[Remco]

Like the build distributed by Mozilla? Go ahead. You'll only confirm that it's not much better.

And here's your "10% difference" :P

http://tuxradar.com/content/browser-...-linux-firefox

Those tests are not from a current Firefox. In the comments it is stated that this discrepancy may have been fixed in Firefox 3.1 (now 3.5). I'd like to see new tests... maybe something for PTS?

[RealNC]

Haha got some benchmarked PGO linux builds to back that statement up?

Like the build distributed by Mozilla? Go ahead. You'll only confirm that it's not much better.

And here's your "10% difference" :P

http://tuxradar.com/content/browser-benchmarks-2-even-wine-beats-linux-firefox

[Remco]

That link made for an interesting reading. Surely Greg sounds very positive and manages to transmit it (I'm not being funny here).

But there is some slippery of logic or perhaps focus going on. I'm going to assume that he is right in his assertion that Linux suports more devices than any other OS (he claims to have an independent source but doesn't cite it). Now, this can only mean one of the following: a) I, and others around me, have had real bad luck with our hardware in Linux, while very good luck with our hardware in Windows; or b) we are talking about different things.

The first option being possible, the easiest explanation is the second one. Notice how Greg quickly jumps to the usual "Linux is 80% of the world's top 500 super computers right now and we're also the number one embedded operating system today". This is good, but it's not what concerns me the most, and it's not what I was talking about, especially in the context of hardware support of an OS like ReactOS. So to be clear, what I have in mind is desktop PC hardware, not supercomputers, mobile phones, wireless routers or electric screwdrivers. Of course, you may not have the same interests, but I'm pretty sure that this forum is full of people whose primary concern is related to the PC desktop market. Thus, that Linux supports a hell of a lot of all types of hardware devices doesn't translate to Linux having better support than Windows for the devices that me and Joe Average are interested in.

Following this line of though:



I don't understand this. Is he saying that some people have a negative perception about Linux HW support because it just happens that their particular hardware is not supported? That what matters is the bigger picture, i.e., that taking into account every single device out there Linux has the broadest support and therefore those perceptions are baseless? I don't know. What I know is that most people that bitch in forums about Linux not supporting their devices are simple PC users, and when you have a sizeable bunch of them there must indeed be a problem with said support. Things don't come out of thin air. The perception that Windows is insecure, although repeated and exaggerated in some circles, is rooted on certain facts. The perception that Linux hardware support is lacking compared to Windows is also based on the experience of users having problems running their kits in Linux. The rest, like comparing 'out of the box' support, number of drivers included in the installation CD, or number of microwaves running the Linux kernel, are pointless issues.

I think it's mostly the difference between old hardware and new hardware. Obviously, there is a lot more old hardware than there is new hardware. Windows supports the smaller set of new hardware, and Linux supports the huge set of old hardware. You don't mind that your webcam won't work anymore in a few Windows releases. I think that's interesting. Many people will grumble about their hardware to stop working, but then accept it and buy new stuff. If only people would accept the same for hardware they just bought! Something doesn't work with Linux? Just buy another one!

Heh, yes, that's it. And let me add "and when people want to use it". I won't care very much if in 10 years time my webcam doesn't work in Windows10, but I want to see my parents via Skype today.

That's a completely valid concern, and that's where ReactOS may help (though hardware support has improved to the point that I don't care about it anymore). Something like the Linux Unified Kernel project may very well point to the future of Linux. Torvalds has stated that he would merge patches that make Linux compatible with Windows. But I'm not sure how that meshes with his aversion to a stable kernel API.

[krazy]

Linux Firefox in inherently slower than Windows Firefox. Optimization has nothing to do with it. It's because some code is different between platforms and the Linux specific code doesn't get as much attention as the Windows one.

Haha got some benchmarked PGO linux builds to back that statement up?

[RealNC]

That's usually true (~10% faster maybe), but only because the windows builds are built with better optimization.
Make a linux build with PGO enabled and compare again!

Linux Firefox in inherently slower than Windows Firefox. Optimization has nothing to do with it. It's because some code is different between platforms and the Linux specific code doesn't get as much attention as the Windows one.