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  • Originally posted by Giovanni Fabbro View Post
    GNOME OS targets developers - the GNOME developers made that clear.
    Gnome targets developers, they've also made that clear along the years.

    Originally posted by Giovanni Fabbro View Post
    One more thing: Canonical had to use the third-party Debian code to start with. Fedora didn't.
    They didn't reinvent the wheel. Isn't that a good thing? Everyone is always complaining that Ubuntu has the NIH syndrome, but here they didn't and yet you are complaining. The typical lack of consistency of Fedora cultists. Ecofascists display the same kind of inconsistency of ideas and eventually contradict themselves too.

    Canonical made debian accessible to everyone while debian couldn't. Just as Manjaro did with Arch.
    I bet you want to keep Linux for a certain (and presumed) IT-litterate elite, only compiling stuff, using tiling managers and keyboard shortcuts-centric workflow. The more accessible it is the less you like it. Well, I can do all that, but my workflow would be awfully slowed down. Not sure you can envision knowledgeable people preferring simplicity though...
    Still, I'm happy it's a choice people with different use cases can make. I embrace the variety of possibilities so that everyone can find something that suits their workflow. Fortunately, other leaders in FOSS have similarly pragmatic visions.

    Originally posted by Giovanni Fabbro View Post
    Red Hat employees are the developers of KVM, virtio, GNOME, Flatpak, Cockpit, and a whole other host of Linux components that are available in other distros.

    Canonical made Snap, their subscription-based system management platform Landscape,
    I only use Gnome in your list.

    Flatpak is the same crap as snap, and the rest is pro-oriented and as such has little interest to me and to users in general.

    Originally posted by Giovanni Fabbro View Post
    and modified GNOME into this garish thing with a clashing colour scheme that breaks GTK apps.

    Care to argue those merits again?
    You mean that modified Gnome that most individual users adopted massively because it's much more user-friendly than any other Linux OS? And I'm not just talking about Ubuntu, most Gnome users have tweaked it in a way that is closer to the Ubuntu set up than to Vanilla Gnome. For good reasons.
    Again, they understand their user better. This is the ultimate merit in an OS for individuals.

    What is typical of above mentioned Fedora cultists is the lack of consideration for the different workflows, tastes and choices. ​​​​​​​Even their fans adopted the dictatorship mindset. You don't like Ubuntu colors so you have to belittle them. The usual narrow-mindedness.

    I'm not using the Yaru theme, I'm using a CSS-customized version of the Matcha-Aliz theme (Manjaro theme in red, based on Arc). Yet, I made heavy use of orange and aubergine because they go along well and are joyful, which is a positive change from the dull blue, black and grey (dark or light).
    Your blinkers will probably not allow you to acknowledge that different users have different tastes, though...

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    • Originally posted by Mez' View Post
      They didn't reinvent the wheel. Isn't that a good thing?Everyone is always complaining that Ubuntu has the NIH syndrome, but here they didn't and yet you are complaining.
      It's not a good Linux. It's Debian turned into Windows 10. It's closed-source drivers, subscription-access deployment software, telemetry on-by-default and Amazon Big Data spyware, and redundant trash (i.e. Snap) designed to give Canonical an artificial proprietary advantage.

      The typical lack of consistency of Fedora cultists. Ecofascists display the same kind of inconsistency of ideas and eventually contradict themselves too.
      Wow. Godwin's Law is strong in you.

      Canonical made debian accessible to everyone while debian couldn't.
      By supporting closed-source drivers and software in their main repositories. Got it.

      Just as Manjaro did with Arch.
      Why do you defend derivative distros so much and rail against an independent distro like Fedora? Do you have the same amount of disdain against, say, Solus?

      I bet you want to keep Linux for a certain (and presumed) IT-litterate elite, only compiling stuff, using tiling managers and keyboard shortcuts-centric workflow. The more accessible it is the less you like it. Well, I can do all that, but my workflow would be awfully slowed down. Not sure you can envision knowledgeable people preferring simplicity though...
      It's spelled "literate".

      Actually I found Windows 10 to be faster than any Linux on my hardware, aside from maybe just pure boot speed. It consumes more memory than a "lightweight" Linux DE (no more than GTK3 or KDE though), but multitasking and graphics performance are just plain faster all around (mouse lag is terrible in Linux). Plus, I can use Linux on it with WSL2. Docker Desktop even now recommends using WSL2 because you can run native Linux applications in Windows with it. I'm not tied into software of any particular nature so long as it works on my hardware and gets the job done. I don't know why GNOME 3 takes so much RAM. It's not like it's any where near as graphically complex as Windows 10's translucent shader-based, and parallaxing GUI desktop theme. If it took less RAM, and if Linux graphics drivers were as fast as they are on Windows (2016 AMD APU here), I might use it more.

      Flatpak is the same crap as snap, and the rest is pro-oriented and as such has little interest to me and to users in general.
      If you've ever used virtual machines, you'd know that Virtualbox is trash compared to KVM. And no, containerized applications aren't going away. They're just an evolution of existing package management.

      You mean that modified Gnome that most individual users adopted massively because it's much more user-friendly than any other Linux OS? And I'm not just talking about Ubuntu, most Gnome users have tweaked it in a way that is closer to the Ubuntu set up than to Vanilla Gnome.
      Now there's a pie chart I'd like to see....

      Again, they understand their user better. This is the ultimate merit in an OS for individuals.
      By copying Windows.

      That is typical of above mentioned Fedora cultists is the lack of consideration for the different workflows, tastes and choices. Even their fans adopted the dictatorship mindset. You don't like Ubuntu colors so you have to belittle them. The usual narrow-mindedness.
      I don't like Ubuntu colours because they are garish, conflicting, lack any thought of design esthetic, and also produce heavy eye strain.

      I'm not using the Yaru theme, I'm using a CSS-customized version of the Matcha-Aliz theme (Manjaro theme in red, based on Arc). Yet, I made heavy use of orange and aubergine because they go along well and are joyful, which is a positive change from the dull blue, black and grey (dark or light).

      Your blinkers will probably not allow you to acknowledge that different users have different tastes, though...
      https://stopthemingmy.app/

      Comment


      • Originally posted by 144Hz View Post
        jo-erlend I don’t understand what you are saying. But asking the community to hand over code at a broad license in return for a GPL downstream is predatory.
        I don't understand why that would be. Very rarely would a big project benefit from giving every contributor full veto. There's a reason why so many Free Software projects use CLAs.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Giovanni Fabbro View Post

          It's not a good Linux. It's Debian turned into Windows 10. It's closed-source drivers, subscription-access deployment software, telemetry on-by-default and Amazon Big Data spyware, and redundant trash (i.e. Snap) designed to give Canonical an artificial proprietary advantage.
          I completely disagree or don't care on most points. And the Amazon thing is gone.

          Originally posted by Giovanni Fabbro View Post
          Wow. Godwin's Law is strong in you.
          How has ecofascism anything to do with Godwin's law? The word fascism here is just used as a way to say these ecologists are intolerant towards anybody thinking differently. Same as Fedora cultists.

          Originally posted by Giovanni Fabbro View Post
          By supporting closed-source drivers and software in their main repositories. Got it.
          I don't care so much about closed-source. If there's no valid alternative.

          Originally posted by Giovanni Fabbro View Post
          Why do you defend derivative distros so much and rail against an independent distro like Fedora? Do you have the same amount of disdain against, say, Solus?
          I don't defend derivative distros, they just happen to be more pragmatic in their approach and focus on users rather than on masturbating around their own skills. As much as I could be an elitist, I will prefer popular (accessible) to elitism any day of the week.

          I have nothing against Fedora. I just don't like the recurrent narrow-mindedness of Fedora users, always swallowing anything that is thrown at them and believing without any kind of critical mind that it's better than anything else. Same as Apple users. "Gnome devs gods gave it to us, it has to be the only way" (they see the light, like cultists)... Hence they don't acknowledge other people tastes and workflows. They just think they own the single version of the truth. In reality, there are as many truths as there are users. To each his/her own doesn't exist for them. To each Vanilla Gnome. To each Wayland. Doesn't work that way, sorry.

          I haven't tried Solus yet. But Budgie is the complete opposite approach of Gnome. It is made for users, it acknowledges the diversity of workflows and it let users set it up in different ways so as to please as many workflows as possible. It completely empowers users, and that's exactly how it should be. It's still very much a work in progress though.

          Originally posted by Giovanni Fabbro View Post
          It's spelled "literate".
          Thanks, I guess? Not a native English speaker here, doing my utmost best.

          Originally posted by Giovanni Fabbro View Post
          And no, containerized applications aren't going away. They're just an evolution of existing package management.
          I left Windows 15 years ago because of the waste of resources of bundled packages among other things. I certainly won't go back to a medieval way of handling packages.
          I personally don't care much about containerized applications.

          Originally posted by Giovanni Fabbro View Post
          Now there's a pie chart I'd like to see....
          Just look at the latest Gnome distros usage stats and how the most popular are set up...

          Originally posted by Giovanni Fabbro View Post
          By copying Windows.
          They aren't. At all.
          I'm using Windows only at work (no choice) and I don't feel like there's much in common between my system at home and the Windows design mess.

          Originally posted by Giovanni Fabbro View Post
          I don't like Ubuntu colours because they are garish, conflicting, lack any thought of design esthetic, and also produce heavy eye strain.
          It's your point of view and I respect it. Yet, I completely disagree.

          Originally posted by Giovanni Fabbro View Post
          I know.
          It's part of their dictatorship and their will of a one-size-fits-all. That approach is just wrong when there are so many different tastes and workflows, you can't hope to push your own little way to people without a few possibilities for most common workflows and have users be satisfied.

          Adwaita is the absolute ugliest theme there is in my opinion. Not a chance in the world I'm using their horror.
          I used Arc for years, but the dull blue background for every highlight/selection is just a no. I would only have changed a couple of colors if it wasn't for the fact that Arc is unmaintained and difficult to customize since it uses irritating gresource files. Other themes just let me tinker with gtk.css (or gnome-shell.css for the shell) with no extra hurdle. It's mostly about changing colors and svg icons though, so it doesn't break anything unless the theme itself is broken after a Gnome update. But I can always revert to a more up-to-date theme.
          Last edited by Mez'; 07-27-2020, 05:37 PM.

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