FreeBSD 13.0-RC3 Released With The WireGuard Driver Removed

[aht0]

Reading manuals and doing what you're told is a great achievement indeed. Hope you do well in kindergarten, you're in the path to become a funcional adult with actual problem-solving skills (i.e. stuff your handbook doesn't or cannot cover).

Fucking grow up, will ya. Reading manuals is acceptable when you are dealing with hacking or DIY distros (into which I also put BSD's). When you are dealing with "I wanna be pretend-windows"-distros, then you should not have to be doing any of it. It should be everything "point-and-click and automatic". Definitely you shouldn't dig under hood and leaf through thick manuals.

Let's say I install such linux on a laptop/PC of person who is not technical literate, might not even speak any English. Should I visit him/her each time upgrade fucks something up? Or should I just disable all software updates? Imagine doing this shit on a wider scale and getting calls about "my linux doesnt work now, come and fix" sixteen times a day and someimes over night.

By the way, I never said I was unable to configure FreeBSD, I said I don't want to because, for me, it's not worth it. If I wanted to make my life harder for no reason I'd just be using LFS.

You literally told it when you were whining about the need of constant tinkering with "unstable FreeBSD desktop". It has barely any "moving parts". What the fuck are you tinkering with then? It's as simple as can be even when you are using Plasma5.

[kylew77]

Not any more. When you install devel/gvfs, it automatically pulls in sysutils/bsdisks, which emulates the UDisks2 D-Bus interface and mounts drives from both GIO-based file managers (Nemo, Thunar, PCmanFM) and KDE's Solid-based ones (presumably Konqueror).

Version 0.24 crashed and would hang sometimes, but I contributed many bug fixes and version 0.25 is very reliable. If you find bugs please report (https://foss.heptapod.net/bsdutils/bsdisks), and I'll take a look even if the maintainer doesn't. It's a small project I've gotten to know well, and fixing bugs is easy now.

Fully automated mounting, as in file manager window opens when a drive is plugged in, won't work on XFCE yet as thunar-volman needs udev. Currently, you have to click on the removable drive icon in your file manager to mount it. But I am hoping to eventually implement a devd->udev conversion too.

That is VERY cool! I will have to try installing that this weekend! Thank you for contributing that awesome piece of code.

[angrypie]

And again, I can say same to you - stay on linux, you shouldn't try conf-it-yourself OS'es, fail miserably because you didn't think on reading manuals and then bitch about it in moronix. FreeBSD is essentially bit like Gentoo or Arch. You get basic system, then build upon that base. Whatever you want.

Reading manuals and doing what you're told is a great achievement indeed. Hope you do well in kindergarten, you're in the path to become a funcional adult with actual problem-solving skills (i.e. stuff your handbook doesn't or cannot cover).

By the way, I never said I was unable to configure FreeBSD, I said I don't want to because, for me, it's not worth it. If I wanted to make my life harder for no reason I'd just be using LFS.

[aht0]

Seems like I hit a nerve, and, well, you are clueless.

Did you switch to tried-and-true filesystems like Ext4 or Xfs? Did you even consider your remaining issues were caused by corrupted files? Could those be hardware/firmware issues?

I don't think you should be operating anything more complex than a microwave, let alone an undead Unix distribution whose survival is by trickle-down software ported from Linux.

You miss one rather important point. Linux desktop distros I named are supposedly offering user-friendly experience out-of-the-box. Regardless of what user does with either, as long as he/she doesn't go out of his/her way to break their installation, it should keep working. It should not matter what file system I used (be it ext4, xfs or btrfs). Certainly simply updating the system's software/packages should not cause issues. It'd be acceptable with "hacking" distros, like Arch or Gentoo. Not with binary package-based desktop distros. Fiddling and tinkering should be limited to distributors, along with considering what hardware would run and what not. Btw, if it runs on Windows and FreeBSD, it should be non-issue with Linux. Unless devs/distributors fucked things up somewhere in the pipeline.

And again, I can say same to you - stay on linux, you shouldn't try conf-it-yourself OS'es, fail miserably because you didn't think on reading manuals and then bitch about it in moronix. FreeBSD is essentially bit like Gentoo or Arch. You get basic system, then build upon that base. Whatever you want.

[angrypie]

Seems like I hit a nerve, and, well, you are clueless.

Did you switch to tried-and-true filesystems like Ext4 or Xfs? Did you even consider your remaining issues were caused by corrupted files? Could those be hardware/firmware issues?

I don't think you should be operating anything more complex than a microwave, let alone an undead Unix distribution whose survival is by trickle-down software ported from Linux.

[aht0]

Rolling release distros like Arch strongly recommend reading the release notes before any big upgrade (or recommended, haven't used Arch in a while). Something like Debian stable or OpenSUSE Leap would hardly break if at all, and I can only imagine breaking Ubuntu if you're using a lot of sloppy PPAs. Either you're arguing in bad faith or are revoltingly clueless about how FOSS is developed.

Either you're arguing in bad faith or are revoltingly clueless about how FOSS is developed.

- and you know what, I had same thought about you. You are whining about having to tinker with FreeBSD where it's simple untruth unless you manage to intentionally screw things up (like diving into custom /etc/make.conf and then mixing the custom-built packages with official ones).

My issues have been namely with OpenSUSE and Mint. No custom PPA's (I consider them stupid security risk). Generally some systemd issue or package manager finding itself with corruption. Or btrfs on some drive dying/corrupting itself out of blue. Or GPU (Radeon) losing it's 3D accel. Whatever. Not always after updates but often enough "something funky" would happen and piss me off. Fixable? yes. But with all the "moving parts" inside most distros these days - I want it to "just work", be manageable through GUIs and not force me to read up on Bible-like manuals about how to fix things. Can I get it? No. So I just go with FreeBSD, thank you. Less than dozen conf files to "tinker with" to fix rare hiccup and handful of commands to keep it reasonably updated.

Debian stable versions? Yikes..why? I am already getting its stability and much newer packages with BSD's.

[angrypie]

I have exact same opinion about Linux. Often something breaks after random package updates and then you HAVE TO fiddle with it.

Rolling release distros like Arch strongly recommend reading the release notes before any big upgrade (or recommended, haven't used Arch in a while). Something like Debian stable or OpenSUSE Leap would hardly break if at all, and I can only imagine breaking Ubuntu if you're using a lot of sloppy PPAs. Either you're arguing in bad faith or are revoltingly clueless about how FOSS is developed.

[aht0]

For desktop usage it's awful, unless you do nothing else but endless tinkering with your computer. It's fun as a one-off exercise, but it becomes a chore if you have to do it often.

For servers I'd assume it doesn't matter much. CLI is the same for the most part.

I have exact same opinion about Linux. Often something breaks after random package updates and then you HAVE TO fiddle with it. With FreeBSD desktop, dunno what's there to tinker with, not that many "moving parts" (especially compared to Linux) and all the tinkering (in my case at least) is limited to infrequent OS's "base" upgrade from source (handful of console commands) and occassional portsnap auto && synth upgrade-system. That's pretty much IT.

[dacha]

Getting auto mounting of external media is another thing entirely

Not any more. When you install devel/gvfs, it automatically pulls in sysutils/bsdisks, which emulates the UDisks2 D-Bus interface and mounts drives from both GIO-based file managers (Nemo, Thunar, PCmanFM) and KDE's Solid-based ones (presumably Konqueror).

Version 0.24 crashed and would hang sometimes, but I contributed many bug fixes and version 0.25 is very reliable. If you find bugs please report (https://foss.heptapod.net/bsdutils/bsdisks), and I'll take a look even if the maintainer doesn't. It's a small project I've gotten to know well, and fixing bugs is easy now.

Fully automated mounting, as in file manager window opens when a drive is plugged in, won't work on XFCE yet as thunar-volman needs udev. Currently, you have to click on the removable drive icon in your file manager to mount it. But I am hoping to eventually implement a devd->udev conversion too.

[k1e0x]

I disagree, getting a FreeBSD desktop up and running is about as difficult as doing it on Arch Linux. You don't have to compile a custom kernel and set use flags like Gentoo. The base system is already installed you just need to pkg add your desktop of choice and setup your startx file to start that desktop. Getting auto mounting of external media is another thing entirely but getting up and running with a desktop and a web browser like firefox takes maybe 30 min. It is like starting from the Ubuntu LTS server install media and installing a desktop with APT.

That might be true, one thing is FreeBSD will use the minimum package dependencies to get software running and it won't suggest extra things you may want for a better experience. Almost everything is in there and works for Gnome or KDE but finding the bits you need to install takes time. There is a instant workstation script out there that tries to track down all the extra little bits you might need. (for instance MTP support in Nautilus etc.)

Also you mentioned using geli with ZFS before, you no longer have to do that if you don't want to as ZFSv2 has native encryption and can encrypt it's own pools/datasets. Doing it this way makes them portable because it works with all of the other ZFS features like ZFS send. (or be imported on Linux/MacOS)

Did you know: Gentoo was inspired from FreeBSD and ports can do the same compile with or w/out various flags. It's lacking some polish Gentoo has tho and is more difficult to use so packages are recommended. You can use source packages though if you want and that flexibility is nice to have. Few linux distros can do source or binary packages.