SDL3 Will Keep Wayland Default At Least For The Time Being

[Ghjnut]

Who the fuck forks a protocol?

That's as naive as saying if the Windows API sucks in some way every dev will instantly switch to something better.

Except that doesn't fucking happen in reality.

Jesus. Settle down.

[ssokolow]

Also, does Steam use SDL? Because otherwise, why is Valve so involved?

Valve funds and recommends it as the way to develop games for release through Steam, both because it makes it so easy to make native Steam Deck ports, and because Steam has things like the Steam gamepad configuration UI setting the environment variable that the SDL Gamepad API listens to if you want to override the bundled mappings from the virtual XBox 360 controller to whatever your physical gamepad is.

In their ecosystem, it's basically equivalent to how Microsoft wants people to develop directly against DirectX.

[anda_skoa]

Can someone explain me what changes for end user?

For an end user there isn't much of a change unless the application developers have only ever tested one of the two possibilies.

If one is using an X11 environment, will SDL3 use X11?

Yes

Maybe the change impacts Wayland environments only and will skip XWayland?

Exactly.
On a Wayland system the SDL based application can either request and X11 window, in which case it will be displayed through XWayland, or a Wayland window, in which case it is directly connected to the compositor.

The application's developer can decide to specifically request one or the other.
Either by hardcoding one choice, or by having a configuration option, or doing some sort of system capability detection.

In any of those cases the default behavior discussed here does not even come into play.

However, if the application's developer decides to delegate this choice to SDL then it does.
With the old default it would attempt an X11 connection, with the current default it will attempt a Wayland connection.

With the proposed improvement it will check system capabilities and then make a choice depending on that outcome: if the Wayland compositor has support for the two protocols in question, SDL will attempt a direct Wayland connection. If it does not have that support then SDL will attempt an indirect approach via XWayland.

SDL might have options to override this, for example with an environment variable or similar.
In which case you are essentially in the same situation as if the application developer had made this configurable.

[Brittle2]

It is dumb conspiracy, I don't believe in that at all. But when these people have so much power in a critical project, and they use it to stall or block important protocols, for sometimes half a decade, it becomes a question if these people, very knowledgeable or not, are beneficial to the community as a whole.

We don't need the perfect protocols, we need something that works right now, it has been 15 fucking years already!

just implement the hell you want, problem solvef

[mSparks]

X11 can't properly handle more than one monitor to this day, one of the many issues Wayland has fixed. That's why X11 is dead.

what the fuck are you talking about.
X11 doesnt just do multiple monitors flawlessly (I run 3 on my main desktop plus a VR headset), it does multiple monitors sharing the same desktop over multiple devices flawlessly.

None of which wayland is capable of by design.

maybe you should spend less time talking BS and more time RTFM

https://xorg-team.pages.debian.net/xorg/howto/use-xrandr.html

[treba]

what the fuck are you talking about.
X11 doesnt just do multiple monitors flawlessly (I run 3 on my main desktop plus a VR headset), it does multiple monitors sharing the same desktop over multiple devices flawlessly.

None of which wayland is capable of by design.

maybe you should spend less time talking BS and more time RTFM

https://xorg-team.pages.debian.net/xorg/howto/use-xrandr.html

Please name me the X11 compositor that is capable of syncing to three different screens. If you have to turn of the compositor for that: that's pre 2010 bullshit and not acceptable for modern desktops.

[mSparks]

Please name me the X11 compositor that is capable of syncing to three different screens. If you have to turn of the compositor for that: that's pre 2010 bullshit and not acceptable for modern desktops.

any of them for the last 2 decades. heck even compiz never really had any problems.

which wayland compositor do you need to use to do something like

https://youtu.be/UhMErNsEoZw?si=oxGP2MCZL75nW1xY

or

https://youtu.be/jQwiD4eFcZA?si=v2rVcfwGh5wy5sCm

[treba]

any of them for the last 2 decades. heck even compiz never really had any problems.

Do I really have to break to you that X11 compositors don't support mixed refresh rates?

which wayland compositor do you need to use to do something like

https://youtu.be/UhMErNsEoZw?si=oxGP2MCZL75nW1xY

What's special here? Apart from that on Xorg it most likely only works well as long as all screens are the exact same model *and* one has to ensure they refresh in parallel - while pretty much every current Wayland compositor would also support the same with a bunch of different monitors, refresh rates (including VRR) and rotations? (and if a particular Wayland compositor doesn't support something yet there's no fundamental issue preventing people from implementing support for it - unlike on X11 where the protocol is in the way).

or

https://youtu.be/jQwiD4eFcZA?si=v2rVcfwGh5wy5sCm

Haven't seen anyone doing this with Wayland but also don't see any technical reason that would prevent people from implementing it - if somebody saw value in it 🤷

[mSparks]

What's special here?

6 screens, every wayland compositor I tried CTDs with more than 1 GPU/2 screens.

More importantly a userspace application doing window placement, wayland breaks any of those by design.

Haven't seen anyone doing this with Wayland

you never will because wayland breaks X2X by design, and its been unmaintained longer than wayland has been maintained, so zero chance of anyone making the changes needed for it to work on wayland.

[mrg666]

6 screens, every wayland compositor I tried CTDs with more than 1 GPU/2 screens.

More importantly a userspace application doing window placement, wayland breaks any of those by design.


you never will because wayland breaks X2X by design, and its been unmaintained longer than wayland has been maintained, so zero chance of anyone making the changes needed for it to work on wayland.

You should be a very busy guy to fill six screens of work. Thank you for sparing your time for this forum. That is xorg for you then and it is not going anywhere. Lucky you!