SDL3 Will Keep Wayland Default At Least For The Time Being

[dekernel]

X11 can't properly handle more than one monitor to this day, one of the many issues Wayland has fixed. That's why X11 is dead.

Really, that seems odd since I have been using multiple monitors for quite some time with no issues. Now what I can tell you that doesn't work on my system is performing simple copy/paste sequences with Wayland. For the life of me, getting the sequence to work between browser windows and text editors is crazy. There are times when I have to attempt the sequence 3 or 4 times before it actually works...and don't get me started when you throw in a VM session where I am trying to get simple text in and out of the VM session. Now if I run under X I have not an issue so there, that is my experience with Wayland. Yes, Wayland is the future and I get it, but from my perspective the future is pretty darn bleak right now. The moment I can get copy/paste to work like it should, yes, I will then be using Wayland, but until that day comes, X is my goto to get work done.

[treba]

Really, that seems odd since I have been using multiple monitors for quite some time with no issues. Now what I can tell you that doesn't work on my system is performing simple copy/paste sequences with Wayland.

Hm, don't recall having had copy/paste issues in a long while - please report! Regarding multiple monitors: X11 compositors can only sync against one of them. So you have to choose - and *might* be lucky if all of them run at the close enough refresh rate to not see tearing and/or things run slower than necessary. Running a 144Hz and 60Hz monitor in parallel won't work well though and adding e.g. rotation etc. makes things even worse. The only option I'm aware of that helps around this is to not use a compositor - which, well, IMO does not count as functional post-2010. So IMO it's fair to say that X11 multi-monitor is simply broken by modern standards.

[partcyborg]

Hm, don't recall having had copy/paste issues in a long while - please report! Regarding multiple monitors: X11 compositors can only sync against one of them. So you have to choose - and *might* be lucky if all of them run at the close enough refresh rate to not see tearing and/or things run slower than necessary. Running a 144Hz and 60Hz monitor in parallel won't work well though and adding e.g. rotation etc. makes things even worse. The only option I'm aware of that helps around this is to not use a compositor - which, well, IMO does not count as functional post-2010. So IMO it's fair to say that X11 multi-monitor is simply broken by modern standards.

I have an external 144hz 1440p+ ultrawide attached to my work laptop which has a 1080p 13" screen. It runs Xorg as it is on an old debian stable distro as I haven't bothered to upgrade it. I have no tearing, everything just works. Also, the monitor runs at 150% size vs the laptop screen at 100% size and there are no issues here either. No blurry fonts, no slowness due to 1.5x rendering, it just works.

[kokoko3k]

Can someone explain me what changes for end user?

If one is using an X11 environment, will SDL3 use X11?

Maybe the change impacts Wayland environments only and will skip XWayland?

Thanks!

[treba]

I have no tearing, everything just works.

Known limitations don't just disappear - certainly not on Debian stable. You might be lucky and things run "good enough" for you, though.

[mrg666]

The main reason why many people are saying Wayland is a joke is the fact that XFree86 4.x took only five years to fully mature before Xorg took back control with X11R6 after the licensing issues.

Wayland has been out for over a decade and still has failed to deliver on its promises. It's still mostly broken.

Some of you say its "dead" and "old" really have no clue about how software works and what package stability means. Just because something isn't actively developed doesn't mean it's dead or abandoned. X still gets distribution level patches.

All Wayland did really was divide resources, development teams, and interest. It's droned on long enough to show it's pointless to continue when protocols can't be merged in a timely fashion. All of this could have been used to redevelop X11 to improve designs, security, driver handling, etc.

And yes, people's gripe with Red Hat is what it is, because they're literally the Microsoft of Linux wanting their Windows clone. That's been known for over 20 years.

You are the one who is clueless about open source development.

- X11 is not gone and it is not going anywhere. If you like it, use it, take the source develop it, but just shut up!
- RedHat cannot dominate open source. Because it is open source, it is free software, nobody can be forced to follow them.
- Resources are not divided. People smarter than you are developing anything they want. They do not need your permission nor you can tell them what they should work on. Your opinion matters as much as your code.

[dpeterc]

Hm, don't recall having had copy/paste issues in a long while - please report!

It has been reported 5 years ago

https://github.com/vmware/open-vm-tools/issues/443

https://kb.vmware.com/s/article/74671

Still not resolved...
To me and my customers Linux in vmWare without functioning cut&paste is borderline useless. So nobody is using Wayland on vmWare, because cut and paste works properly in X11.

[schmidtbag]

Can someone explain me what changes for end user?

If one is using an X11 environment, will SDL3 use X11?

Maybe the change impacts Wayland environments only and will skip XWayland?

I've also been wondering this - if both X11 and Wayland can be used then what's the problem? Maybe with SDL, you have to choose one over the other, but... how hard could it be to just build a program with binaries supporting either of them, where a shell script chooses the correct binaries based on the active display server?

Also, does Steam use SDL? Because otherwise, why is Valve so involved?

[Weasel]

If don't think you understand open source if you think they somehow hold Wayland hostage... If the community didn't like the way it's handled it would have been forked ages ago.

Who the fuck forks a protocol?

That's as naive as saying if the Windows API sucks in some way every dev will instantly switch to something better.

Except that doesn't fucking happen in reality.

[Weasel]

Also, does Steam use SDL? Because otherwise, why is Valve so involved?

Native games use it.