SDL Developers Weigh Reverting Wayland Over X11 For SDL 3.0

[hf_139]

Eventually Wayland will be a rock solid

Maybe in another 15 years. The wayland protocol is old, deprecated and has fundamental flaws.

If we are lucky, we will get a modern replacement before wayland becomes stable, so users can skip wayland alltogether and go for whatever is next.

[AmericanLocomotive]

HDR is not needed on a desktop. If it was, it would have been done by now.

A decent HDR monitor now costs from about $1000 on the market. Not everyone even has a monitor that supports VRR (I do and it works fine in Xorg).

HDR wasn't even possible from a technological point of view until very recently. LED backlight, LCD panel and OLED technology were not able to handle the brightness levels required. A proper HDR display needs to achieve peak brightness levels 3-4x higher than a standard "desktop" display.

[S.Pam]

I honestly don't get where this 15 (or 16) years ago comes from?
The initial idea of Wayland was conceived in 2008 but its first release was in November 2012, yes its 12 years ago, but it is certainly not 16 years

Maybe i am wrong. I was using the initial release (30 September 2008) as stated on https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayland_(protocol)

According to devs, the first 'real' release was feb 9, 2012 (14 years ago). https://lists.freedesktop.org/archiv...ry/002072.html

I'd still argue that one and a half decade for main development and were still having core parts missing is snail pace, and so old it ought to be replaced by something better...

[S.Pam]

Well, you are comparing a system like Wayland that describes behaviors and intentions of different aspects to get more functional control over what is and should happen to a system like Xorg that is basically "I can draw line, here framebuffer".

Thats why Xorg is such a dysfunctional garbage when it comes to things not being there 40 years ago. A computer with TWO screens? Witchcraft! And everything beyond that is as broken as well.

You are right. Two screens wasn't common, or perhaps even conceivable 30-40 years ago. However a lot of things were conceivable, common or at least possible on competing system when wayland was conceived, and those "protocols" are still not developed...

The more interesting analogy you make is that wayland is not an implementation, where X is. The whole premise for wayland is that instead of a car, people get a high-level schematic of a transportation system. But the problem is that we need cars to get from a to b, and we need them to have steering wheels, windows, indicators, lights, etc, but the schematic didn't include any of that. Only now when so much investment had been made into developing new types of cars, it becomes apparent how expensive this type of development model is.

[S.Pam]

Wayland was completely standardized and finished in 2013. .

apparently not, as we need new protocols still. Perhaps the issue is that wayland never was meant to be feature complete, that other stuff needs to be built to make a whole desktop system. Users don't care about internal islands like that, we want stuff that works as we are used to

[ssokolow]

As far as I understand the relative positioning not in question, but absolute positioning is

The conclusion that Matthias Klumpp came to after a lot of experimentation, research, talking to people, etc. is that any relative positioning system expressive enough to meet the needs of things more complex than GIMP and a few other big-name multi-window applications would be as abusable as absolute positioning within a compositor-provided non-global coordinate system but with the added problem of being a complex pain for compositors to implement.

[pWe00Iri3e7Z9lHOX2Qx]

Who am I going to trust, professional software developers from Valve who get paid to work on the Linux graphics / display stack full time, or some rando armchair quarterbacks on Phoronix? Tough choice .

[aufkrawall]

Prospect of Wayland: Finally perfect vsync on Linux.
2024: Most common vsync mode doesn't work correctly on Wayland.

Ouch. Gladly, XWayland + VRR is fine (or so it seems)...

[Tsih]

Who am I going to trust, professional software developers from Valve who get paid to work on the Linux graphics / display stack full time, or some rando armchair quarterbacks on Phoronix? Tough choice .

What do you mean, we hold the ancient texts on this matter, they mustn't be wrong.

I'd still argue that one and a half decade for main development and were still having core parts missing is snail pace, and so old it ought to be replaced by something better...

You're very welcome to implement a better system, with your obviously immense knowledge on this subject we are salivating to see what the future holds.

Should I start the timer now, or when you come up with the first version?

[energyman]

Xorg trolls, do not celebrate yet.... Issues like this are GOOD, because they lead to the implementation of new protocols to solve them.... Eventually Wayland will be a rock solid default for SDL 3.0 . No matter how much you spread FUD and troll against Wayland, Xorg is dead. Deal with it.

yes, add protocol after protocol, portal after portal until you create a mess that is worse than X, with less of the features.