KDE Plasma 5.25 Beta Released With Many Improvements, Wayland Support Maturing

[Grinness]

Since the release of Gnome 42 ( I really don't like it) moved to KDE Plasma Wayland on arch (Plasma version 5.24.5)

The issues I experience are the following:

1. turn on/off external TV (HDMI) crashes latte dock (bug reported) -- it restarts automatically
2. switching monitor layout may cause issue with background (goes black)
3. yuzu does not output video using RADV Vulkan, it requires: env QT_QPA_PLATFORM=xcb yuzu (aka running in xwayland)


All the rest works no problem (e.g. steam, firefox, blender, lutris, onlyoffice, skype, pcsx2 with vulkan backend, ........)
No issue with cut& paste and clipboard, etc, etc ....


Edit: Above on amd opensource stack (rx480)

[khnazile]

Still no trace of 'wayland robustness' that was promised to reach maturity this year

[RejectModernity]

I think it makes more sense to use X11 for the Deck. Xwayland adds overhead on a system with limited specs, and X11 can keep up just fine at 1080p or lower. Add to the fact that Wayland just isn't quite stable enough for a product like this.

I've been using Wayland+KDE for a while now and though I have an overall good experience, there is still a lot to be done before I would recommend Wayland to someone who isn't a Linux veteran (I would recommend KDE to most people though).

IDK man what overheads you are talking about. Xorg and xwayland show basically the same performance.
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...ayland21&num=1

[V1tol]

The only reason why I don't use Wayland is Novideo as a videocard. I could use it on my laptop in Intel mode just fine and offload games to NVIDIA but since I bought an external monitor to use as primary one, Wayland is a no-go with Lolvidia for me.

[vegabook]

Things like DXVK spread out CPU resources across multiple threads, where even though the overall CPU usage goes up, the performance goes up with it. The same does not apply to XWayland. Also, those translation layers are a matter of necessity. The added overhead of XWayland is entirely avoidable.

I don't understand your point about the Pi. Wayland, when used as intended, is less resource intensive. I doubt you're playing a lot of games on your Pi (other than maybe some emulators), so, it makes perfect sense to use Wayland. I have Wayland set up on an ARM-based laptop and it actually works better than X11. The Deck has a lot more grunt but it also has a lot more work to do. As long as XWayland is still necessary to play certain games, it's unnecessary overhead.

If the next-gen Deck has 6c/12t or higher and Wayland gets a bit more polished, I think then it would be fine to use. Alluding to caligula's post, when headlines consistently stop mentioning Wayland improvements for updates, that's when it's ready for everyday use for the average person.

First, the Steam Deck does use Wayland, for the presentation layer of its Game Mode. So there's that.

Second, I said I wanted wayland in Desktop mode. I'm not playing games in desktop mode, so again I don't know why you're rabitting on about gaming on the Pi. I suspect you don't know how the Steam Deck works because you're all over the place with irrelevant logic.

I've used Wayland since Ubuntu 20.04, I dev all the time using a Wayland-based Ubuntu station on a much weaker laptop than the Deck, and it works fine. So I don't know what all the fuss is about as per mdedetrich thinking and your thinking. Actually, Wayland has been a blessing in my multi-monitor, heterogenous-dpi setup after years of pain with X, but then I'm a server-side quant coder and not a graphics-side coder so maybe the latter people have more experience of problems than my close-to-zero problems in the past 18 months (after what was admittedly a bumpy start 2019/20).

[Chugworth]

Wayland in its current state is not recommendable because of the issues it has, sorry to burst your bubble but it still has a long way to go. KDE 5.25 may help but that would need to be evaluated.

I recommend it. I have been using it for several versions now, and it works quite well. At this point I think the average user is just as likely to encounter some glitch or imperfection in X as they would in Wayland. And as more focus moves to Wayland, then X will gradually start to become the more flaky and unpolished window system.

[schmidtbag]

IDK man what overheads you are talking about. Xorg and xwayland show basically the same performance.
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...ayland21&num=1

That's a 16c/32t system with practically double the clock speeds. Not to mention, a much more powerful GPU with its own dedicated VRAM. To use those benchmarks and say there's no overhead is like driving an 18 wheeler and saying there's no impact to its performance when you load it with a fully-assembled desk. Try roof-mounting that desk on a Honda Civic and you're going to notice a difference in the way it drives.

In any case, even in that best-case scenario, you'll find there are instances where Wayland was performing significantly worse. So long as that still happens on a gaming device, it isn't worth using.

[schmidtbag]

Second, I said I wanted wayland in Desktop mode. I'm not playing games in desktop mode, so again I don't know why you're rabitting on about gaming on the Pi.

And what exactly is preventing you from running it in desktop mode? I don't know what you're rabbiting about when it's a non-issue. If they somehow managed to lock it out, nothing is preventing you from wiping the OS with your own version of Arch and use Valve's repositories (if there even are any). The fact of the matter is, Wayland should not yet be the default compositor. If that's not what you were suggesting then I really don't get the point of your post.
You're the one who brought up the Pi, for whatever reason.

I've used Wayland since Ubuntu 20.04, I dev all the time using a Wayland-based Ubuntu station on a much weaker laptop than the Deck, and it works fine. So I don't know what all the fuss is about as per mdedetrich thinking and your thinking. Actually, Wayland has been a blessing in my multi-monitor, heterogenous-dpi setup after years of pain with X, but then I'm a server-side coder and not a graphics-side quant coder so maybe the latter people have more experience of problems than my close-to-zero problems in the past 18 months (after what was admittedly a bumpy start 2019/20).

I don't know how to emphasize further that Wayland really excels at certain workloads while isn't [yet] so great in others. While I personally don't get how so many people here apparently have unusably unstable experiences with KDE and/or Wayland, the fact of the matter is, it's common enough that Wayland is not ready for primetime. If it works for you, again: nothing is preventing you from using it. So just turn it on...

[nist]

Does Kget keep downloading any file for the double of its size?
Example: file 100mb -> downloaded 200mb

[skeevy420]

That's a 16c/32t system with practically double the clock speeds. Not to mention, a much more powerful GPU with its own dedicated VRAM. To use those benchmarks and say there's no overhead is like driving an 18 wheeler and saying there's no impact to its performance when you load it with a fully-assembled desk. Try roof-mounting that desk on a Honda Civic and you're going to notice a difference in the way it drives.

I love that analogy.