New Details Emerge About Debian Founder Ian Murdock's Death

[Passso]

Funny thing is the reason we all have guns is so that we can overthrow our government if the need ever arises. And I'm pretty sure the need never arose because we all have guns. But in Europe you guys burn through governments every 30 years or so. More or less every generation. (Nobody is better at making laws unenforceable than Americans. Turns out, that's the key to making government work long term.)

Governments burn often only in eastern Europe. They just evolve slowly in western Europe since the "fall/death" of kings in 18/19th century and the birth of the republics ( I must admit a few periods of exception for fascism in some countries ).

A real republic with a deep feeling of freedom (kind of fake but this is far from topic) is generally stable, would you have weapons or not IMO.

[starshipeleven]

This is what I pointed first, I live in Europe and we just cannot imagine dealing (like in USA) with weapons in every home. It is highly anxiety-provoking for us.
Some peasants have hunting gun anyway, but we stay far away from their house

Look up the numbers, in EU on average it's around 1 gun per 5 citizens, in Austria it's up to 1 gun per 3 citizens.

In USA it's ridicolously high at like 1.5 guns per citizen or something like that, but even in EU there are a ton of guns too.

[starshipeleven]

Yes I imagine: drug is MUCH easier to pass than weapons.

FYI: it's a while narcos use submarines, and I'd also like to know how in the hell someone plans to control large frontiers in shitty terrain.

This also assumes that the guards themselves aren't corruptible, which isn't always the case.

I can buy all sorts of random crap that got into the EU by smuggling into eastern europe states or southern states.

Sorry but it contradicts your previous post. If you do not get weapons banned at source then basically everyone has a gun. Why would you care having a "super licence"?

Because weapons are not banned at source in any place in the world so banning them is flat-out stupid period.
You just need a license and you can get one (apart from assault rifles and machineguns).

The super license would make sure that those that get a gun are able to use it effectively, which is the whole reason someone gets a gun for. You have no fucking idea of how much people dies in accidents involving using guns wrong, or how much people buys a gun for their safety but then ends up only getting shot by someone while pulling it out (US citizens have this weird belief that they can pull out a gun and shoot even at gunpoint).

Decent tests would also effectively cut out from legal gun usage people that cannot use guns effectively (i.e. the large majority of people), but will do so in a way that is more acceptable than "by fiat". As if you fail a test you will know that even in a real-life situation you would have been worthless anyway.

[Passso]

Look up the numbers, in EU on average it's around 1 gun per 5 citizens, in Austria it's up to 1 gun per 3 citizens.

Yes, this includes old rifles from WW2 or so, which you cannot get ammo for or are broken. And this, I agree is a lot.
The rest is mostly for hunters who have several hunting guns each.
So raw statistics are not that useful in this case, what about real handguns or assault rifles?

I myself lived in several towns, both city or country and never saw a real (usable) weapon of my life, nor know anyone who own one...

[duby229]

FYI: it's a while narcos use submarines, and I'd also like to know how in the hell someone plans to control large frontiers in shitty terrain.

This also assumes that the guards themselves aren't corruptible, which isn't always the case.

I can buy all sorts of random crap that got into the EU by smuggling into eastern europe states or southern states.

Because weapons are not banned at source in any place in the world so banning them is flat-out stupid period.
You just need a license and you can get one (apart from assault rifles and machineguns).

The super license would make sure that those that get a gun are able to use it effectively, which is the whole reason someone gets a gun for. You have no fucking idea of how much people dies in accidents involving using guns wrong, or how much people buys a gun for their safety but then ends up only getting shot by someone while pulling it out (US citizens have this weird belief that they can pull out a gun and shoot even at gunpoint).

Decent tests would also effectively cut out from legal gun usage people that cannot use guns effectively (i.e. the large majority of people), but will do so in a way that is more acceptable than "by fiat". As if you fail a test you will know that even in a real-life situation you would have been worthless anyway.

I mostly agree, but I'm not as pessimistic. I personally think most of the current legal gun owners could pass federal training requirements. Look at the number of Americans with a drivers license for example, it's a huge percentage. I think a gun license should require training in 3 area's 1: Safe storage, 2: Proper handling, 3: Marksmanship. In that order of importance. (Secondarily I also believe licensed gun owners should be required to carry it at all times, holstered where it is plainly visible.)

[unixfan2001]

This isn't Australia, this is America. If you try to take peoples guns from them they will declare civil war. Our constitution specifically requires it, and all children here are taught that from elementary school. We have a different culture than you do.

You might want to re-read your Constitution or go back to high school, mate.

"A WELL REGULATED MILITIA, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Burger munching redneck bozos don't equate a MILITIA and your Constitution doesn't require shit (it's called an AMENDMENT, btw. Might want to learn the meaning of that term)

As for civil war. Only the completely insane and delusional would declare civil war. Anyone with half a brain would quickly realise that the military has them outnumbered.
Good luck with your revolution. It's never gonna happen.

[unixfan2001]

Look up the numbers, in EU on average it's around 1 gun per 5 citizens, in Austria it's up to 1 gun per 3 citizens.

In USA it's ridicolously high at like 1.5 guns per citizen or something like that, but even in EU there are a ton of guns too.

US: 112.6 per 100 citizens
EU average: 20 per 100 citizens

Still quite a difference.

Aside of the fact that Europeans usually can't carry their guns around everywhere.

[duby229]

You might want to re-read your Constitution or go back to high school, mate.

"A WELL REGULATED MILITIA, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Burger munching redneck bozos don't equate a MILITIA and your Constitution doesn't require shit (it's called an AMENDMENT, btw. Might want to learn the meaning of that term)

As for civil war. Only the completely insane and delusional would declare civil war. Anyone with half a brain would quickly realise that the military has them outnumbered.
Good luck with your revolution. It's never gonna happen.

That's your misinterpretation. Sorry dude. And in case you can't understand this, an amendment to the constitution is an amendment to the constitution. Anyone with half a brain could quickly realize 250 million people far outnumber half a million people. And besides most military members would certainly side with the people. It's for people just like you is the very reason why Americans keep the threat of civil war alive and well. If you want to risk it, then bring it on.

You don't think a well organized militia's could be founded, but you are definitely wrong. Our constitution specifically requires it. Small cluster groups in guerilla foundations is the only possible way to defeat the US military. And we've centuries of practice against our own police forces. Trust me when I tell you Americans are fully prepared. The government knows that full well.

EDIT: Militarized police forces have been a fact in this country since the Gulf war. And still they lose the war on drugs. Illegal guns are more common now then ever before. Common crimes like breaking and entering, or holding up a convenience store is still just as common now as ever before. The "revolution" as you say, isn't a revolution. It's a fact of America. It's been this way from day one. We have giant organizations already in place and have been for a very long time.

[starshipeleven]

You might want to re-read your Constitution or go back to high school, mate.

You are talking to people that tired to erase slavery from history books, it's pointless.

[starshipeleven]

250 million people far outnumber half a million people

What makes an army isn't weapons but training and C&C infrastructure, 250 million headless untrained sheeple are going to get their asses handed to them by anything.

Small cluster groups in guerilla foundations is the only possible way to defeat the US military.

Yeah right. Keep dreaming man, keep dreaming.