Mandriva Linux Was Allegedly Brought Down By Employee Lawsuits

[Chaz]

I think it can all be chalked up to the french language. It makes it absurdly difficult to consider technical problems and so they avoid doing that. The end result is that french speaking people don't understand underlying problems. And even refuse to recognize problems. It's inherent to the language. They can't help it, that's how they were taught since toddlers.

Can you explain what you mean by that? The French language is derived from Latin and Latin (and French!) has traditionally been the language of science and education, until English began to eclipse it more recently. Most technical words in English have Latin roots and very close French equivalents.

I've actually seen the claim go more commonly the other way. French officials have argued that the EU should use French for legal writing because they say French is more precise than English. And personally I don't speak French but I have learned Spanish, which is structurally very similar. Spanish seems to me to be just as precise and useful for technical work as English. Also France has produced a large number of famous scientists and successful engineering projects.

[smitty3268]

You are completely ignoring my point. I have to assume you are doing it deliberately. As I said earlier, the fact that this dude made a vague complaint about "the legal system" proves nothing. He refuses to give any detail whatsoever. He refuses to say specifically what the French legal system is doing that he considers incorrect. He won't say what the claims against him even are, and the reporter didn't ask anyone else for their side of the story.

I completely agree with you that we don't know what actually happened here, and GreatEmerald was assuming certain things that happen to agree with his personal worldview to make a point.

But you are doing the exact same thing, just on the opposite side, when you previously assumed that Mandriva was trying to get people to work without pay.

We really just don't know any of the details of the lawsuit.

[Chaz]

I completely agree with you that we don't know what actually happened here, and GreatEmerald was assuming certain things that happen to agree with his personal worldview to make a point.

But you are doing the exact same thing, just on the opposite side, when you previously assumed that Mandriva was trying to get people to work without pay.

We really just don't know any of the details of the lawsuit.

To clarify, I am not assuming that Mandriva was trying to get people to work without pay. I can see why you thought that, but I meant that as just an example of one possible thing they might be getting sued over. I suspect it is over something like that, because unpaid wages, benefits, or pension contributions are common in the US and probably everywhere. But it's possible it's over some frivolous personal dispute; I dunno because he wouldn't say.

Mainly I am saying that given the possibility that these suits could be completely justified, it is totally inappropriate for anyone to be saying this is all the French government's fault or employees' fault.

And, you know, if he's going to announce that it's all someone else's fault and then refuse to provide any explanation at all (confidentiality concerns, haha, yeah right!), I really do feel like we're entitled to make a default presumption that he's a lying jackass.

[carewolf]

In Denmark you have to give 3 full months notice (you can quit with 1 full month notice, and no reason), and provide the reason for the termination. A valid reason would be downsizing (Illigal reason could be peternaty leave, any thing discriminatory, sickness and a few other things).

No. The notice is a contract thing, though the default contract has 3 months after a few years of employment, but you do not need to give any reason for firing in Denmark (though some reasons such as discriminations are illegal, which can lead to lawsuits, but that is no different the US). Easy hiring and firing is the flex- part of flexicurity, with the logic being that a strong public welfare system means people are less reliant on employer-provided welfare (such as healthcare), and you therefore don't need as much protection from being fired. Strong laws against firing are more common countries with weaker welfare states.

[GreatEmerald]

To clarify, I am not assuming that Mandriva was trying to get people to work without pay. I can see why you thought that, but I meant that as just an example of one possible thing they might be getting sued over. I suspect it is over something like that, because unpaid wages, benefits, or pension contributions are common in the US and probably everywhere. But it's possible it's over some frivolous personal dispute; I dunno because he wouldn't say.

Now it's true that we only got one side of the dispute here, but what that side is saying is pretty clear, and was already explained by other people in the thread. The issue is that in France firing employees is most of the times illegal, and the employees can file lawsuits because of it. I know about such laws since I have French relatives. It's true that Mandriva brought that on themselves because they should have known it wouldn't end well, but their discontent at the system is understandable too.

[toyotabedzrock]

I think it can all be chalked up to the french language. It makes it absurdly difficult to consider technical problems and so they avoid doing that. The end result is that french speaking people don't understand underlying problems. And even refuse to recognize problems. It's inherent to the language. They can't help it, that's how they were taught since toddlers.

Is that why France has the only other nuclear aircraft carriers in the world, designs European jet fighters, space launch rockets and the airbus passenger aircraft?

[Hamish Wilson]

And to think people are complaining here because the recently elected provincial government where I live wants to put in the $15 dollar minimum wage that it campaigned on. They want us to believe that the entire economy will be crippled if it goes ahead and raises the minimum wage incrementally by a a few dollars over the next three years. Well, seeing as how France and Germany still manage to be economic engines with the laws here described, then the employers where I live really do have nothing to complain about in comparison.

[erendorn]

So much misinformed people in this thread.. Anyway, it's true that France has very strict laws regarding lay-offs (approximate rule: you cannot fire off people), and the special courts working on that almost always side with the employees against the employer. Without details it's difficult to tell, but it's fairly possible for a company to lay off people on very valid reasons and still be sued badly.

[Chewi]

Mandrake was my first distro back in 2002 when it was quite popular and even then, they were struggling financially. I recall them practically begging users for cash at every opportunity in a manner that felt a little distasteful. I sympathised with them a little; how does a commercial distro that isn't targeting the enterprise market actually make money? I soon switched to Gentoo, primarily because it suited me better, and I've been with that ever since.

[enjolras]

I think it can all be chalked up to the french language. It makes it absurdly difficult to consider technical problems and so they avoid doing that. The end result is that french speaking people don't understand underlying problems. And even refuse to recognize problems. It's inherent to the language. They can't help it, that's how they were taught since toddlers.

It's probably why french speaking people won so many Nobel prizes and Fields Medals. Now everything makes sense, i get it !