C4 Engine Drops Linux Support, Calls It "Frankenstein OS"

[carewolf]

OS X is a trainwreck.

In slow motion... and with millions of people cheering. Odd that.

[carewolf]

In case you didn't notice, we have had PulseAudio 1.0 since 2011. It was introduced precisely to fix the problems you mentioned. Of course one application blocks the others while using the sound card, because it is a shared resource, just like your hard disk or your serial ports. The job of multiplexing access to it is best done by a userspace daemon for many objective reasons that I won't repeat here, just read any PulseAudio FAQ.

The problem with PulseAudio was that it was advertised as a fully backward compatible solution when in reality it was "almost" compatible. New applications (as in, post-2011, that's 4 years already) do not see that problem. It also was computationally heavy but that has been fixed too, I used PulseAudio on a Pentium 4 until a couple of months ago.



In fact, it has a userspace audio engine too.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...=vs.85%29.aspx

Pulseaudio is from 2006, and you don't need it anyway. Alsa is automatically using dmix unless you mess it up. So birdie is just trolling.

[blackiwid]

Oh man i dont care.

Maybe thats the problem. Dont care and everybody like nvidia and microsoft dictates you what you are allowed do and what not.

As long as it works. Like now im battling with cmake and lsb in order to compile openal which does not link to stuff provided by distro. No matter what end i pull it still links to latest. And trust me i nearly exhausted every option. This is bad and it would never happen on windows. Or if it did there always is a list to remove some linker search paths. Anyway explicit > implicit always. Some linux people forgot it and its being big pain in the rear..

The point here is its not linux that does everything different than windows does it, its the opposite, windows does everything different to be incompatible (belive me thats the only reason), than everybody else, linux, bsd apple 1000 other unixes I dont care all do most stuff pretty the same way, like it was 30 years ago but in a more refined version of that. So now should every single os change everything to be a windows clone? I doubt that.

The question is why do somebody care, whats the reason nobody forces you or others to develop for linux. Either the userbase is slowly but steadily growing waiting to a point where it will explode in total dominance like android basicly over night became a monopoly for smartphones. Or because you like the freedom if you dont care about such stuff just stay in windows, we ignore each other and all are happy. whats the point in having a windowsclone with the name linux? so you dont have to pirate windows and get a free beer windows?

No Windows does everything differently not the other way around. As example its 100% standard to use /usr/lib forward slashes on paths, why do we need in programmes something like get-path-seperator() funktions only because of windows.

[geearf]

Alsa is automatically using dmix unless you mess it up. So birdie is just trolling.

That's unfortunately not always true.
It is the case on my laptop with intel audio, but not on my desktop with a HDMI output.
For the HDMI I need to write my asound.conf tu use dmix, which frankly is too annoying to do

[bitman]

The point here is its not linux that does everything different than windows does it, its the opposite, windows does everything different to be incompatible (belive me thats the only reason), than everybody else, linux, bsd apple 1000 other unixes I dont care all do most stuff pretty the same way, like it was 30 years ago but in a more refined version of that. So now should every single os change everything to be a windows clone? I doubt that.

The question is why do somebody care, whats the reason nobody forces you or others to develop for linux. Either the userbase is slowly but steadily growing waiting to a point where it will explode in total dominance like android basicly over night became a monopoly for smartphones. Or because you like the freedom if you dont care about such stuff just stay in windows, we ignore each other and all are happy. whats the point in having a windowsclone with the name linux? so you dont have to pirate windows and get a free beer windows?

No Windows does everything differently not the other way around. As example its 100% standard to use /usr/lib forward slashes on paths, why do we need in programmes something like get-path-seperator() funktions only because of windows.

I hear you and i agree with that you say. Totally. BUT. Linux userbase will not explode any time soon. You know why android skyrocketed? Because it is a nice platform to develop things on. It has stable API. It has reasonable backwards compatibility. Most importantly - apps run on wide variety of android builds (be they different versions of AOSP or vendor-customized). Same goes for windows. Im pretty sure same goes for OSX. For linux however its pure black magic to achieve this. Aside from full-blown chroot and lots of pain i have no idea how it would be possible to target different version of glibc. This retard gcc will link implicitly to w/e is in /usr/lib no matter what. I have no idea why it has to be so difficult but it is. And it does not help. But hey we have standalone installer from vmware or metasploit. Works well on most of distros. Guess my fault is that im not a big corp with lots of resources to figure it out heh (chroot is not solution).

Noone wants windows clone here. All people want is for things to be reasonably simple. Because lets face it - spending a day to set up chroot of old distro and building all new tools and libs on it just so you can target lowest common denominator of distros is plain retarded. Its wrong. It has to go. And it kills linux adoption. And thats why some people hate it. And that hate is not undeserved.

[Emmanuel Deloget]

Um, nope. Can you give an example?

I want to install abiword as a user on my PC. I don't have root access, and the administrator decided to not install any dev tool because it's not a development machine.
Can you please help me to do so?

Installing some (of course, not all) softwares as a user has been possible for ages on other OSes. Why not Linux? Why don't we have a simple, graphical, distribution agnostic way to deliver softwares to our users? Why do they need to learn a new package installation tool each time they install a new distribution?

You should not close your eyes on Linux defects - it's a real disservice to the community. You can't make Linux better if you force yourself to believe it's already perfect.

[somini]

You know why android skyrocketed? Because it is a nice platform to develop things on.

Total and utter horseshit. It exploded because Google put their weight behind it. They bet the farm and now they are reaping the rewards.

[asdfblah]

A few things:
- He could have asked for help in MANY ways (forums, IRC for fast response, mailing lists), could have paid for support, and/or could have tried any alternative: flavor/DE, kernel, distro, ... Too bad people are now telling him to use Arch instead of finding the cause of (and solving) his problems... He doesn't even mention details (hardware), or googling his problem.
- He says that he removed 2008 lines of code https://twitter.com/EricLengyel/stat...47098421657601 because of his problems... this looks like an irrational response.
- You should remember that yet another problem with linux distros is package/software LICENSES. Distros won't distribute software that either doesn't permit distribution, or that doesn't agree with the distro guidelines, or whatever, and this affects EVERYTHING.
- You guys should watch Linus talking about distros: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Mg5_gxNXTo . AFAIK, RMS also doesn't install his own systems, he asks someone else to do it for him. What does that say about Linux as a whole?
- People blaming him (probably stupid know-it-alls elitists) or not asking specific questions about his problem are unhelpful, and obviously don't have a lot of experience with linux...
- Some people learned about Linux "the hard way", being told to RTFM. Other people were more helpful and guided people to solve their problems. Who do you think is more helpful? I personally use a mixed approach: if someone needs help and also really wants to learn or to use Linux, I help them. If they don't care or don't have enough patience for me to help them, I think it's a waste of time and simply won't help them, so "RTFM" or "google it" is a good way for them to either leave OR learn and be patient.

// END rant

[yogi_berra]

- People blaming him (probably stupid know-it-alls elitists) or not asking specific questions about his problem are unhelpful, and obviously don't have a lot of experience with linux...

My favorite response in this thread was this:

Likewise, I could have written that quoted paragraph except about Windows and Mac.

Because downloading one self-contained SDK to develop for Windows, Mac, PS4, or XBox One is a horrific experience that no one should go through.

[toyotabedzrock]

Linux is lacking common sense in several areas.

We shouldn't need to make a custom distro for every need.

And the command line needs to become the secondary way of configuration. There is no reason not to have a configuration ui that can pull in the labels and organization from documentation. If some Dev whines too bad you are going to have to let go of your documentation format created in the 90s.