Devuan: Debian Without Systemd

[psychoticmeow]

This implies that

a) there was/is a need to fork Arch
b) that lack of balls, courage or fortitude are the only possible reasons for there not being a fork

Here's a thought - *you* spearhead an effort to fork it. You clearly believe there is a need, and it'd be a great display of your balls, courage and fortitude.

Also, it'd be a great display of his lack of ability and general aptitude, followed by a demonstration of impotent whining.

[edmon]

from where so many sistemD fan-boys came to debian?
isn't there already so many so called distros which use it and doesn't become more successful than debian?!?!?
When i first installed Mandrake Tracktopell i thinked that the discovery tool is the best until i found out debian...
systemd is like discovery useless crap!

[anda_skoa]

from where so many sistemD fan-boys came to debian?

It is not necessarily a matter of number of fans.
It is mostly a matter of lack of number of alternatives.

See the very insightful posting Luke_Wolf made a couple of hours ago: http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showt...316#post456316

Cheers,
_

[arokh]

This project will be dead in no time. The fact that they went ahead with this thing and actually believe forking is a good idea shows that these people are arrogant and wrong. No further explanation needed, let's just sit back and watch it die. Too bad for Linux as a whole that people can't pull in the same direction and put ego in front of the "end user".

[Karl Napf]

I disagree. If Debian had chosen anything other than systemd Ubuntu would have stuck on Upstart.

I doubt that. Steve sent a mail during the CTTE discussion that upstart would need to become the default init for Debian on Linux and may not be available if that was not the decision, heading off the idea of recommending upstart for Hurd/BSD and something else for Linux.

Unfortunately I can not find the link to that mail right now, but I do remember thinking that this did not bode well for upstart's future.

[interested]

from where so many sistemD fan-boys came to debian?
isn't there already so many so called distros which use it and doesn't become more successful than debian?!?!?

You got that all wrong. It is the old time Debian developers that want systemd as the default init-system in Debian. The latest GR have just confirmed how the vast majority of Debian developers want to continue using systemd as the default.

The Debian developers simply agree with the majority of Linux users, distro maintainers, Linux developers and system administrators, that systemd is the best init-system available.

When i first installed Mandrake Tracktopell i thinked that the discovery tool is the best until i found out debian...
systemd is like discovery useless crap!

You may think that calling systemd "crap" is good argument, but it just seem to confirm that systemd opponents are ill informed and immature.

Continuing that level of argumentation and behaviour against Debian and systemd is probably a good strategy to make upstream projects and Debian developers cut all SysVinit support as fast as possible, simply to avoid dealing with such nastiness.

[edmon]

You got that all wrong. It is the old time Debian developers that want systemd as the default init-system in Debian. The latest GR have just confirmed how the vast majority of Debian developers want to continue using systemd as the default.

The Debian developers simply agree with the majority of Linux users, distro maintainers, Linux developers and system administrators, that systemd is the best init-system available.





You may think that calling systemd "crap" is good argument, but it just seem to confirm that systemd opponents are ill informed and immature.

Continuing that level of argumentation and behaviour against Debian and systemd is probably a good strategy to make upstream projects and Debian developers cut all SysVinit support as fast as possible, simply to avoid dealing with such nastiness.

ill informed and immature is to say 'Hop' before you jump. And removing something is the best reason for oppose systemd!

[MoonMoon]

ill informed and immature is to say 'Hop' before you jump. And removing something is the best reason for oppose systemd!

Go ahead and show us what was removed.

[interested]

ill informed and immature is to say 'Hop' before you jump. And removing something is the best reason for oppose systemd!

Sure, many systemd opponents revel in their ignorance of systemd, but what you got to realize is that systemd opponents is a tiny and ever shrinking minority that totally depends on the goodwill of upstream projects for still having any kind of non-systemd support.

By attacking Debian for their choice of init system you may tempt some of their otherwise generous developers to cut of SysVinit support as fast as possible. And since eg. "Devuan" is simply Debian with another name, using Debian packages and repos, this will have serious repercussions.

I think a more humble and grateful attitude towards Debian and its developers is in order, and certainly a much better strategy for cooperation and help than whiny, ill informed and badly argued attacks on systemd and Debian.

[ermo]

(...) The only exception is tomegun, with whom I would be more than happy to continue this conversation via email. He is the *only* reasonable person that I have encountered here.

Please help me understand where in the linked post (which was awaiting moderation and didn't show up for far too long) I was not being reasonable, so that I might at least learn something from this exchange?