Devuan: Debian Without Systemd

[AJSB]

So...you're suggesting the people who decide the technical direction of Debian, SUSE, Fedora, RHEL, Ubuntu, Mageia and multiple other distros are 'end users who are vulnerable to hype and less experienced developers'?

Ooooo...kay then.

I'm anti-PA and anti-systemd, but don't agree exactly with his PoV, however, , i also don't agree with you...you should not put UBUNTU in your list of examples because it's not like UBUNTU sunddendly saw the light and said "upstart is crap and systemd is the next best thing after sliced bread".

UBUNTU, and all their direct and indirect derivates (i.e. XUBUNTU, KUBUNTU, LUBUNTU, Linux Mint,etc,etc.), just like all Debian derivates (witch UBUNTU is one of them) were forced by the decision from Debian to select systemd.

So, these things many times are not about merit of a system vs others or the evaluation that the ones in charge of a distro makes of a init system against others but because of upstream decisions.

[Luke_Wolf]

I'm anti-PA and anti-systemd, but don't agree exactly with his PoV, however, , i also don't agree with you...you should not put UBUNTU in your list of examples because it's not like UBUNTU sunddendly saw the light and said "upstart is crap and systemd is the next best thing after sliced bread".

UBUNTU, and all their direct and indirect derivates (i.e. XUBUNTU, KUBUNTU, LUBUNTU, Linux Mint,etc,etc.), just like all Debian derivates (witch UBUNTU is one of them) were forced by the decision from Debian to select systemd.

So, these things many times are not about merit of a system vs others or the evaluation that the ones in charge of a distro makes of a init system against others but because of upstream decisions.

Debian wasn't using Upstart before during the time Ubuntu was using it, so they were already deviating from upstream... Now Debian switching being the last straw, oh absolutely but they weren't forced to switch.

[pal666]

Too bad math disagrees with you

A Pentium uses ~20W. A rpi 5W.

rpi is a computer while pemtium is a one part of it. you should add other parts and divide by 60% psu

[omer666]

I'm anti-PA and anti-systemd, but don't agree exactly with his PoV, however, , i also don't agree with you...you should not put UBUNTU in your list of examples because it's not like UBUNTU sunddendly saw the light and said "upstart is crap and systemd is the next best thing after sliced bread".

I'm anti-sliced bread.

On a more serious note, I would have hoped Ubuntu actually saw the light, it could have been the beginning of a great distribution.

[pal666]

Consequently, sysvinit is essentially just the following files, plus man pages:

wrong. sysvinit is that plus shell, service scripts and all of /usr/{s,}bin/ executed by scripts

[AJSB]

Debian wasn't using Upstart before during the time Ubuntu was using it, so they were already deviating from upstream... Now Debian switching being the last straw, oh absolutely but they weren't forced to switch.

?!?
Debian never used Upstart...UBUNTU and derivates did.
Upstart that, IIRC, was born before systemd and was developed with great effort from UBUNTU.

However, what was relatively simple for UBUNTU do, a new init system to replace Debian init system and mantain it, won't be possible with systemd because the way it integrates with (some) programs,etc.

The work would be too much from UBUNTU PoV so they throwed down the towel.

[AJSB]

I'm anti-sliced bread.

On a more serious note, I would have hoped Ubuntu actually saw the light, it could have been the beginning of a great distribution.

...and i'm also anti-sliced bread....disgusting thing

What you meant with the serious part exactly ?
That it should have changed to systemd sooner or that they should have keep with Upstart ?...or something else ?...like no freaking CLA ?

[BeardedGNUFreak]

I see you haven't been keeping up with FreeBSD-land.

FreeBSD Founders/developer are proposing a systemd-like system to be created and laughing at linux for being held back by these flamewars about systemd instead of moving forward.

What a moron.

Jordan Hubbard who used to work at Apple thinks non-Apple stuff should be more like...Apple.

Shocking!

You Linux kiddies really are a bunch of idiots.

[pal666]

I wouldn't say SystemD is bad or evil.

it is systemd ffs. are you talking about some other thing ?

But there seem to be some valid arguments against it.

only if you define 'valid' as '100 times rehashed bullshit'

Probably it is good to have several choices on Linux.

probably not. how many libc's your linux has ?

Otherwise NSA, CIA would have to write or find backdoors only for one

there are plenty of targets for backdoors

[pal666]

Systemd on the other hand doesn't do one thing.

of course it does. that thing is called basesystem