Russ Allbery Resigns From The Debian TC

[justmy2cents]

You know things have gotten pretty bad when even Russ can't take it anymore. This is a sad day indeed. I hope the anti-systemd trolls are happy. :/

Russ Albery was pro systemd, not against. if anything this speaks something else is the problem

[justmy2cents]

/facepalm
/sigh

Did you even watch the video? Linus says he "doesn't hate it" because "the fight is over" meaning there's hardly any choice anymore. And you're trying to spin it like he's happy with systemd.

---

And systemd trolls are trying to blame Debian problems on us. Wow, just wow. So it was us who voted for systemd and started the whole mess?

Freaking kids...

he also said there were long standing problems in Linux and to quote him "guess what, they were the first to solve them". it's not about love/hate, it's about Linus being realistic

[MoonMoon]

Sooooo much angst for something that is nothing more than a glorified "foreach {fork&exec}" loop...

Thanks for sharing your deep knowledge of systemd, after years of discussion you have opened our eyes.

[gdimi]

'till now I thought haters 'gonna hate and thats it. The many many systemd related "dialogs" I've seen taught me something new: haters gonna hate and fanboys gonna hate them back and be proud of it!

what a waste of time..

[tankenmate]

I love the smell...

Thanks for sharing your deep knowledge of systemd, after years of discussion you have opened our eyes.

... of a fresh ad hominem in the morning!

[OneTimeShot]

Thanks for sharing your deep knowledge of systemd, after years of discussion you have opened our eyes.

Well, over the years I have coded extensively with systemd, the old sysv init tables and RC scripts (on both RedHat and Debian). I have had no particular problem with any of them. To be honest, I cant really see why people care so much - is it just "oh no! I need to learn something new"? Maybe I have god-like powers, or maybe it ultimately doesn't make all that much difference...

I'm *really* looking forward for the next release of Debian. Not because I urgently need systemd in Debian (on the contrary - changing it over is a bit of a pain), but it'll be interesting to see if the world actually ends or not.

[Cape]

I'm interested in this Debian/systemd discussion mainly because Arch uses systemd from day 1 and I don't want to have an unmaintained/unsupported peace of software to be my system daemon. So the faster the adoption to systemd, the easier will be my life (and those of Arch maintainers). Not to mention added functionality/security/so forth...
Now, i've never used any other distro except Arch so all this screaming and drama for a system update is frankly ridiculous and embarrassing (for Debian).
If i was a Debian user I'd switch my distro on the fly.

But i want to make a little reflection here: the stable release system is a complete joke of nature. It's stupid at pretty much every level: developers hate it, maintainers hate it, users hate it. Not to mention that it doesn't apply to the real world.
Please kill it.

Also it's a very good excuse for developers to break API/ABI (see Linus Q&A).

When we switched to systemd i just had to change a couple of config files and that was it... I'm still running that system and it seems to be always more stable and speedy.
Above all, bear in mind that Arch is heavily under funded compared to the Debians, Fedoras and Ubuntu but still, i find it very stable and fast. How can this be?

[tuxd3v]

too bad..to be truth

The last bastion of freedom, and conservative changes that lead to good stability and capacity to be accepted by almost all people out here is almost closest to fall...

Debian started to feel like some ordinary distro for some time now...that is sad...

The stability, the conservative ideas, the good ideas, have left Debian to the point they are now.

Debian can only take the responsibility for that, and do NOT blame other's...
because then Debian will start to fill like a football team..

when the team win the game, was their capabilities that was good to win, but when it looses...its a couch problem...

The problem of Debian is that it doesn't listen the guys that in fact use Debian all day in the world...
the experience that this guys have is a must to any distro, and Debian is the most used distro out there...
so why the Debian ego don't accept the ideas of the guys that work with it??

Now we will start to see a lot of guys going away from Debian...because they found it unproductive....puff

[NotMine999]

Not Quite Accurate

I'm interested in this Debian/systemd discussion mainly because Arch uses systemd from day 1 and I don't want to have an unmaintained/unsupported peace of software to be my system daemon. So the faster the adoption to systemd, the easier will be my life (and those of Arch maintainers). Not to mention added functionality/security/so forth...
Now, i've never used any other distro except Arch so all this screaming and drama for a system update is frankly ridiculous and embarrassing (for Debian).
If i was a Debian user I'd switch my distro on the fly.

I used Arch before it even adopted SystemD. Seriously! I have actually forgotten the name of the "init" system that Arch used before SystemD, but it was basically a variant of "initscripts".

IMHO Arch was a "fabulous performer" as a Linux distro before SystemD. I even used Arch during and after the migration to SystemD...and that migration had it's "ugly parts" (it was not always "smooth" and even a simple error could render a machine "senseless"). I stopped using Arch and moved on to something else because the "rolling release" nature of Arch eventually became incompatible with my evolving needs.

Overall, Arch is a good release and well suited to people that want to keep up on the "latest and greatest"; it's close enough to "bleeding edge" that you can see it from your Arch distro.

As for my own views on this Debian drama over SystemD, I am interested to see how Debian handles this matter going forward. Sure, things could change in the future, and in 10 years something completely different could be used for "init", but I really think Debian needs to "review & revise" it's governance procedures and development directions. I sometimes think the move by Debian to SystemD smacked of a "me too" attitude...and that's without reviewing the technical merits & issues of the various systems that were considered.

IMHO Debian, as a project, has had a difficult history in "remaining current" relative to other Linux distros; their slow release cycles, relative to other releases, still hurts them, but it earned them a reputation of being "quite stable" (in it's "stable" release version) which is something that server admins greatly appreciate.

I could say this: "Debian used to be so stuck in the past that you could see the cobwebs unless you ran a 'testing' or 'unstable' version of it."

[osinclair]

from a desktop/firewall user point of view

I think it is really sad to observe that the linux community in many parts see to be heading in the wrong direction. I personally don't care about systemd/initv whatever, if there is any discussion I engage in it is what desktop environment to choose. And I use more than one so I am not even "hardcore" on that. But when I do discuss I try to keep respect for those I discuss with and refrain from abusive manners.

But as of late we see Linus himself using what I can only describe as really abusive language, maintainers of kernel (male and female) throwing in the towel and now the ongoing infighting in Debian. And whether you love another distro and think Debian is "stale" does not really matter, the importance of this distro can hardly be enough stressed as the foundation for other distros.

Clearly something is wrong and I would recommend some reading on the meaning of "community". Respect others even when you disagree with their point of view, accept the majority decisions or if not feel free to fork your own software and try and attract users/maintainers/followers