X.Org Is Looking For Some Female Help

[erendorn]

Well, I had this talk with both my sister and my mother (I'm 28 btw, if you need some context) about this long time ago and they agree with me, feminism actually hurts women, just like gay parades hurt gay societies (that's for another conversation I suppose).

Feminist play victims which other insecure women can relate to and men who like to be white knights applaud to whole idea. It's no different to religion when stupid crowd needs some explanation to things they don't understand or a promise of salvation if you confess, so you can feel better about banging your best friends wife.

Make no mistake, intelligence is in minority.

Keep in mind that women that have managed well may have a biased view both on the ones that did not manage so well, and on the proposed causes as to why it is more difficult for them (the ones that did not). This is not limited to women, it happens with basically any "difficult" group.
Similarly, women that have managed without feminism are more likely to feel that feminism is not necessary.
Maybe you need to talk more to brilliant yet insecure women. Their lack of confidence can certainly be driven by society (including the lack of role models), and it's not an impairment for most jobs (this means lost skills and suboptimal economic output).
The world does not only need strong willed individuals.

[smitty3268]

Keep in mind that women that have managed well may have a biased view both on the ones that did not manage so well, and on the proposed causes as to why it is more difficult for them (the ones that did not). This is not limited to women, it happens with basically any "difficult" group.
Similarly, women that have managed without feminism are more likely to feel that feminism is not necessary.
Maybe you need to talk more to brilliant yet insecure women. Their lack of confidence can certainly be driven by society (including the lack of role models), and it's not an impairment for most jobs (this means lost skills and suboptimal economic output).
The world does not only need strong willed individuals.

Well, in certain places the word "feminism" has been hijacked by political debate to mean different things than it means elsewhere.

Ask a woman at a certain place what feminism stands for and they'll tell you it's nothing but bra-burning man-hating nonsense. And that's because whenever anyone else talks about "feminism" there, that's what they mean.

But ask them about whether they support things like equality and fairness for women, and you get very different results. They simply don't connect those thoughts with feminism at all.

[daniels]

women that have managed without feminism

Which, in 2014, is approximately none of them.

[gutigen]

Aside from things like the pay gap, and endemic discrimination at higher-level positions (look at the representation of women on company boards), and in certain fields (say, software).

Well, we could go back here to my point about lack of balls/strong vagina

Paid paternity leave is equally a right in many countries, and often it's paid parental leave which can be split any way between the partners. Something which I totally support, as paying maternity leave exclusively only further discourages women from the workforce.

Hehe, right... In my country (Poland) paternity leave = two weeks, maternity leave = up to 35 weeks But like I've said and you obviously missed it, I support this 100%.

Do you think we need an outreach program for white men? I think they're pretty well represented, which is why the outreach programs focus on bringing the balance to something even vaguely approaching the balance of people in society. You're distorting inclusivity towards your own ends, to reinforce the privilege which already exists. See also: perfect is the enemy of good.

We also don't need programs which divide society - read whole feminist agenda today (not in the past when it was needed). The moment legislation says there is equality on all levels (which pretty much there is in EU, US and many other so called democratic countries), there is no need for feminist agenda anymore, jobs done.

Can we perhaps focus on what's really the issue here? Insecurity among women and lack of respect for them on men's side - both passed on children through generations of stupidity. We have to reach school, teach kids respect and how to think for themselves and all those retarded agendas will be gone sooner or later. Obviously this will not happen, but one can wish.

Yes, there is definitely a lot of stupidity in this discussion, but honestly, 'let's not have these discussions because it brings horrible misogynists out; let's just tolerate them and sweep the whole discussion under the rug' is the stupidest thing anyone has written thus far.

And where did I said that? I believe you've mistaken someone's else comment for mine.

Obviously outreach into schools and universities is fantastic and something which should be supported. But it's not something the X.Org Foundation can necessarily help with, and supporting people who want to be involved but perhaps need a helping hand, helps in order to change these perceptions ('hey, there ARE women in software!') from the other direction too. Both are good.

I'd say it looks like "hey, women need our help to get into IT cause they are weak and can't handle themselves, let's fix it cause we are such a good guys". This is not helping, it's hurting women even more.

[gutigen]

Keep in mind that women that have managed well may have a biased view both on the ones that did not manage so well, and on the proposed causes as to why it is more difficult for them (the ones that did not). This is not limited to women, it happens with basically any "difficult" group.
Similarly, women that have managed without feminism are more likely to feel that feminism is not necessary.
Maybe you need to talk more to brilliant yet insecure women. Their lack of confidence can certainly be driven by society (including the lack of role models), and it's not an impairment for most jobs (this means lost skills and suboptimal economic output).
The world does not only need strong willed individuals.

Yea, I agree. That's why we need to reach schools in the first place, cause grown ups won't change (perhaps can pretend, but that's it).

[smitty3268]

I'd say it looks like "hey, women need our help to get into IT cause they are weak and can't handle themselves, let's fix it cause we are such a good guys". This is not helping, it's hurting women even more.

You are welcome to interpret things however you want, but that doesn't mean you are correct or that others share your interpretation.

I mean, you seem to be reading a LOT into this. I'd say it just means "hey, we'd like to see a few more women in IT to improve diversity. Maybe this will help". Which is pretty much what they are flat out saying.

[axero]

Because you never see men being disrespectful to anyone in movies ... right. But yep, women should know their place and never speak their minds. Equality!

In those movies, there are "bad-guys" and there are "good-guys". Indeed you see bad-guys being disrespectful to others, but you never see "good-guys" be disrespectful unless the intention is to make him look ridiculous or it is warranted by the plot. I mean if the batman is disrespectful against the joker, who cares? It is warranted.

For example in the latest 'Thor' movie, Jane Foster is quite disrespectful against Thor on several occasions, and Jane Foster is not a "bad-guy", she is a good "role-model" that little pre-teen and teenage girls look up to while swooning over Chris Hemsworth when they watch these movies together with their families. Now in the next coming movies, Thor is actually going to be a female. Thor is based upon Nord mythology, and it is kind of weird how they have deviated from it. Such as letting Heimdall being a black guy. In the fantasy movie Transcendence, the female main character screams at a scientist and tells him to get out. I can go on, the examples are many...

I didn't pay attention to these things at first but after watching how these American movies affected the behavior of women in North-Korea after a Japanese Journalist smuggled some USB-sticks of such movies through the border, it really opened up my eyes on how these movies affect people and tend to demoralize them. Especially those people who are not as, ... gifted. It really made me think. Sure, NK may not be a model country in terms of politics but otoh it surely is not as bad as the western media depicts it. But that is another discussion that I doubt belongs here.

You are welcome to come up with counter-examples but you are more likely to find examples that confirm what I just said.

[daniels]

You are welcome to come up with counter-examples but you are more likely to find examples that confirm what I just said.

No thanks; I think your arguments stand quite well on their own.

[profoundWHALE]

What? Equal pay for equal work is discrimination against men?

The point that was being made is that when a female worker gets pregnant, not only does she often get paid leave, but they need to fill that spot. If I was an employee and I had special, more expensive insurance like that, I should have to pay for it. But no, that's discrimination or sexism.

[Luke_Wolf]

See, this is the problem. I disagree with a bunch of what Zoe Quinn says, but then you've got people like this who spread rumors (that have NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER) as truth, and it's hard to say she doesn't have a point. And there are multiple people here repeating said salacious rumors with no proof.

It's ok to simply disagree with someone. You don't have to paint them out to be Hitler or some slut taking advantage of every guy she sees. The fact that everyone is so fast to go there when a woman is involved does say something, in my opinion, and it's not something good.

No Evidence Whatsoever by which we mean her ex set up this http://thezoepost.wordpress.com/ supported by chatlogs. Now if you want to claim that the evidence could have been faked or whatever go right ahead but here's your evidence right here.