Originally posted by jbernardo
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Systemd haters aren't interested in a proper discussion about systemd, they only care about discrediting it. (A lost cause now that systemd has won).
Whatever you think of PA, the project really revitalized sound on Linux and began a systematic debugging of both drivers and ALSA. Sound on Linux before PA was bad and a low priority with developers.
Originally posted by jbernardo
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But that PA would have severe problems was to be expected, all other sound projects had similar problems, if not worse, and they weren't system wide either. As I said, this was a really an insanely hard problem that PA solved. Had it been trivial, you would have seen another system wide sound daemon many years before, and likely, many competing projects.
But that it was a hard problem that no one else had been able to solve, isn't the sole reason for why the PA projects was brilliantly engineered; Poettering also cared for the deployment of PA and that it required as little work as possible (beside bug fixing).
Pray tell me, how else could the problem have been solved? Making yet another sound system instead of ALSA? A complete rewrite of all the kernel drivers? A complete rewrite of every user space program?
Poettering avoided all these classic traps of redoing everything from scratch and thereby make a new backwards incompatible solution. He made a backwards compatible solution. Just the fact how easy you can disable or even remove PA shows how well engineered the project is. With most other solutions there would have been a flag day where everything was committed to the new way, or it didn't work.
Your claim that "politics" whatever that is, was the reason why it was adopted so quickly is simply wrong. Everybody had wanted a proper system wide sound solution for years, especially the DE designers, who rightly complained that they shouldn't have to deal with messy low level stuff like kernel drivers.
Yes, there were driver bugs and ALSA bugs and kernel bugs, and bugs in PA too, but it was still better than everything else before.
Originally posted by jbernardo
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Originally posted by jbernardo
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I am perfectly fine with people who doesn't want to use systemd or PA for whatever reason they feel like. But they should spend their energy on improving what they like instead of negative campaigning against something they don't use or like. E.g. GNU SysVinit doesn't even have a simple build test system, so the only way to test if a new version works is by booting a system with it. People who think SysVinit is the right solution for their Linux distro, should help the developers instead of attacking systemd. But they don't, just like they don't seem to care about ConsoleKit and anything else they may need on their non-systemd distros; they seems to prefer to attack open source developers and projects instead. This is why they are haters.
Originally posted by jbernardo
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I do distinguish between systemd haters and systemd opponents. There is also a third group of those who doesn't care about systemd and prefer something else, but they don't attack systemd either, they just work on what they like instead.
AFAIK, Slackware still doesn't believe in package management, but slackers aren't wasting everybody's time by relentless trolling every rpm/deb thread and attacking the software for being badly programmed, the concept flawed, and call for boycotting distros that dares to use package management. They just do the things they believe in.
I think those who doesn't want to use systemd should stop caring about it, and start caring for what they want to use instead. This is much more productive.
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