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New Group Calls For Boycotting Systemd

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  • #31
    Within that relatively small rant made to look like a critique of systemd, it both claims that systemd "assumes admins and users are dumb" and refers to users as "lowest common denominator", validating that they are.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by GraysonPeddie View Post
      Will new users trying out Ubuntu even know what systemd is? NO! What about UNIX philosophy? To new Ubuntu users out there trying Ubuntu for a spin, they know nothing about it. They don't know if Ubuntu follows the UNIX philosophy because once Ubuntu works for them, it just works. Same with elementary OS. There are people out there who don't KNOW what is UNDER THE HOOD of Linux, because if you ask Ubuntu users that never mess with command line what Linux is, you might get a blank stare. As long as installing applications do not break dependency, that's all that matters to them.
      Thers also those of us that have been using Linux for 16 years and could give a fuck about what's under the hood so long as it's open source and works.

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      • #33
        These people should blow it out their collective asses.

        Fork Linux, create your own distribution, fund billions into it and move on.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by DanL View Post
          It's not that simple. Let's say you like American cars, particularly Chrysler, and Daimler buys them. Suddenly, Daimler makes a bunch of decisions that Chrysler fans don't like and Chrysler sales suffer. Well now, you're interested in German motorization.
          well, then keep your 'ol Chrysler LeBaron running.. ;-)

          some of us appreciate the benefits that the new models bring..

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          • #35
            I'd bet good money the majority of those morons are anti-vaccinations too.

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            • #36
              I'm primarily in the "as long as it works and works well" camp, but if the "log files are binary" is true, now THAT seems a bit of a pain. But given that I just don't have any experience trying to dig into systemd logs nor know the reasons binary was the choice, maybe if I did I wouldn't react negatively about that.

              I also am unconvinced that shoving everything and it's brother in systemd is ultimately going to prove to be a good thing. Maybe it will, but it just _seems_ like someone started out trying to solve ABC and decided "f - it, let's solve ABCKGHZYR and other things that aren't even problems" along the way. The project management version is "scope creep" and boy does systemd look like an absolute clinic on scope creep.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by akincer View Post
                I'm primarily in the "as long as it works and works well" camp, but if the "log files are binary" is true, now THAT seems a bit of a pain. But given that I just don't have any experience trying to dig into systemd logs nor know the reasons binary was the choice, maybe if I did I wouldn't react negatively about that.
                It's one of the misleading points. Yes, the journal is in a binary format (which is a good thing, it allows much better searches and much better security), but journald will forward all of the information to whatever logging daemon you want, so you can keep text logs only, both text and binary logs, or just binary logs. Your choice.

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                • #38
                  They had me at "forced dependencies". I mean, I like and use udev. But I deplore anything that _forces_ me to install something else besides a direct dependency. That reminds of back when I had to use Windows. I wasn't allowed to fix one security issue, I had to get the latest Windows Media Player, IE, DirectX and hundreds of other things that I still don't know what they are for along with it when they had nothing at all to do with the security fix. There I was all set to try out their alternative when, what?, they are not offering an alternative beyond switching distros? They lost me.

                  Seriously, Debian lets me ditch the Linux kernel for the HURD kernel. THE KERNEL! If Debian offers an entirely different kernel for to run the say distro then these boycottsystemd people should be able to offer at least one replacement for systemd for at least one of the Distros I use.

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                  • #39
                    Why Systemd isn't Windows

                    The problem with MS Windows isn't design features like using the "registry" to configure all system programs, it's the fact that it's closed source, it's sold rather than distributed freely, and carries restictive license terms. The closed source nature prohibits a security review except by examination of behavior, by decompilation of executable code, or by direect examination of binaries-a real issue given how much open source code that can easily be reviewed also gets ignored (Heartbleed, anyone?) If Heartbleed had been in Windows and required examination of binary code to catch, it would never have been found.

                    OK, I hear lots of shit about Systemd, and that told me to have a good look at it before switching over. My main concern would be keyloggers aimed at encryption, so I went straight to the source code for the "cryptsetup" module, and found nothing obviously malicious. No, I am not an expert in C so a specialist an "underhanded C" coding would have gotten past me, but sutely my eyes were not the only ones on THAT module! Finding nothing there I figured Systemd was unlikely to attempt to phone home with my encryption passphrase, especially given that Dracut can be installed with or without network support, I install it without. I still wrote my own systemd-integrated cryptsetup calling script, not because I don't trust systemd but rather because Ubuntu's old version of Systemd has a buggy cryptsetup module with an apparent race condition between opening an encrypted volume and detecting that it has opened, thus calling the passphrase again for another try. In addition, I prefer to open all my disks with one passphrase entry, something upstream cryptsetup requires a lot of compiled modules to do and which systemd does not support yet on its own, at least in Ubuntu. My method works fine, just as the Upstart version did.

                    I see no reason to boycott systemd on my desktops. In fact, some of the anti-systemd pages say it's fine for desktops but an issue on servers and predict a split on desktop vs server lines. That's fine, especially if all writers of software for either function get a consistant system to write for in both cases. I don't see systemd as any more likely to be backdoored than the kernel itself.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by michal View Post
                      It's amazing how much time people can spend on bashing something that they don't like or understand.

                      For me it's simple - I don't like german cars, I don't own any and I don't give a shit about them. I don't waste my life on whining on german motorization
                      I agree with you although I like german cars
                      If people don't like systemd they should not use it and shut up.

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