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Lennart Poettering Talks Up His New Linux Vision That Involves Btrfs

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  • RahulSundaram
    replied
    Originally posted by anda_skoa View Post
    Those who want to have customers on the Linux platform do that indeed.

    But there a lots of other who whine about packaging in order to have an excuse for not meeting their customers' demands.
    _
    There are dozens of ISV's who don't provide installers and who have plenty of customers. Again, this is a basic denial of the fact that there are real problems and you have provided no good solutions. Hint: Bundling is not a good solution for everyone.

    Leave a comment:


  • sdack
    replied
    Originally posted by BlackStar View Post
    Linus starts ranting about how difficult it is to distribute software on Linux around 5:35 and again around the 26-27 mark. He describes the exact issue that Lennart is trying to solve.

    The whole video is worth it if you have some time to spare: http://t.co/jUSBbSAsrN
    Thanks for the link. It was not very interesting, but I do agree with Linus that one should still respect it when people do start with something and come with a solution, even when the solution is not the best, but shows to be better than no solution at all.

    At around 24min did Linus also say that he laughed Lennert out of the rooms once for some other idea. I think what it means is that one should judge a solution only based on its merits.

    Leave a comment:


  • anda_skoa
    replied
    Originally posted by RahulSundaram View Post
    "Great experience"? That is silly.
    No, just a bad choice of words due to English not being my primary language.
    I meant plenty of experience.

    Originally posted by RahulSundaram View Post
    If the solutions you suggest work so well for them, they will already be using it.
    Those who want to have customers on the Linux platform do that indeed.

    But there a lots of other who whine about packaging in order to have an excuse for not meeting their customers' demands.

    Originally posted by RahulSundaram View Post
    Not everyone has the resources of Google or Blackberry.
    That statement is in itself of course true, but not at all relevant.
    Basically all ISVs ship their product in binary form, only very few ship sources only.

    I doubt that all those free ware and share ware authors whos products one can download on sites such as download.com have sumitted their sources and had the hoster build it.
    More likely they had the resources do create their installers themselves, apparently even without having Google's or BlackBerry's resources.

    Cheers,
    _

    Leave a comment:


  • BlackStar
    replied
    Linus starts ranting about how difficult it is to distribute software on Linux around 5:35 and again around the 26-27 mark. He describes the exact issue that Lennart is trying to solve.

    The whole video is worth it if you have some time to spare: http://t.co/jUSBbSAsrN

    Leave a comment:


  • mrmcq2u
    replied
    Originally posted by RahulSundaram View Post
    I have told you what is in that video and you asked for it for reference and I have provided it. What you do with it is upto you.

    As for games, they are certainly complex but not typically in terms of dependencies.
    You're wasting your time. If someone is too lazy to watch a video reference then you're better off leaving them be.
    People that need things spelled out to that extent don't have opinions worth debating.

    Leave a comment:


  • RahulSundaram
    replied
    Originally posted by gens View Post
    as i stated if it is not about what you stated that linus himself states, then i have no motive to listen to it now do i ?

    as for the rest... i told you already that games are among the most complex proprietary programs
    if you excuse me i go now do something smarter like playing cs or... just about anything else
    I have told you what is in that video and you asked for it for reference and I have provided it. What you do with it is upto you.

    As for games, they are certainly complex but not typically in terms of dependencies.

    Leave a comment:


  • gens
    replied
    Originally posted by RahulSundaram View Post
    Your question about the video is easily answered by just clicking on the link I provided. If you don't want to listen, then don't.

    Loki installer was designed for games which tend to bundle a minimum number of small utility libraries where you release once and practically never update them ever again and Ryan is a game developer so it isn't a surprise that he doesn't see the problem. Others have widely different needs and a bundling type of installer isn't a good solution for them since there is a significant maintenance cost to bundling if you want to provide ongoing releases, upgrades etc.
    as i stated if it is not about what you stated that linus himself states, then i have no motive to listen to it now do i ?

    as for the rest... i told you already that games are among the most complex proprietary programs
    if you excuse me i go now do something smarter like playing cs or... just about anything else

    Leave a comment:


  • RahulSundaram
    replied
    Originally posted by gens View Post
    is it where he says that ? otherwise i CBA to listen to over an hour talk about packagekit

    also do you have an opinion on the loki setup installer ?
    i do put much faith in Ryan to know wtf he is talking about, and he says distro fragmentation is bollocks
    https://icculus.org/SteamDevDays/Ste...nuxPorting.pdf (can't find the video, there are a couple linked by Michael in hes articles)
    Your question about the video is easily answered by just clicking on the link I provided. If you don't want to listen, then don't.

    Loki installer was designed for games which tend to bundle a minimum number of small utility libraries where you release once and practically never update them ever again and Ryan is a game developer so it isn't a surprise that he doesn't see the problem. Others have widely different needs and a bundling type of installer isn't a good solution for them since there is a significant maintenance cost to bundling if you want to provide ongoing releases, upgrades etc.

    Leave a comment:


  • gens
    replied
    Originally posted by RahulSundaram View Post
    PackageKit (which I have contributed to) provides a generic API layer over existing package management tools so that say LibreOffice can install a add-on if it is available in the distribution repository. It has nothing much to do with third party ISV's. It is not a installer by itself.

    If you want the video, feel free to look at

    http://t.co/jUSBbSAsrN

    Listen to all of it carefully.
    is it where he says that ? otherwise i CBA to listen to over an hour talk about packagekit

    also do you have an opinion on the loki setup installer ?
    i do put much faith in Ryan to know wtf he is talking about, and he says distro fragmentation is bollocks
    https://icculus.org/SteamDevDays/Ste...nuxPorting.pdf (can't find the video, there are a couple linked by Michael in hes articles)

    Leave a comment:


  • RahulSundaram
    replied
    Originally posted by gens View Post
    never heard him say that

    also what are these ppl doing ? http://www.freedesktop.org/software/.../pk-intro.html

    if you got a video or text of him saying that installing arbitrary programs on linux is hard, please point it out
    PackageKit (which I have contributed to) provides a generic API layer over existing package management tools so that say LibreOffice can install a add-on if it is available in the distribution repository. It has nothing much to do with third party ISV's. It is not a installer by itself.

    If you want the video, feel free to look at

    http://t.co/jUSBbSAsrN

    Listen to all of it carefully.

    Leave a comment:

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