icculus interview

[deanjo]

It's a one-liner, FFS.

Oh really, I would really like to see that on distributions that do not offer upgrade to packages just updates to address security issues and such. What if I'm running a custom config kernel as well for example? That mean recompiling of another upgraded kernel at least. It is most assuredly not a "one-liner" on most distributions to do so. It may be a one liner on a source based distro but they are however in the minority.

[pingufunkybeat]

Oh really, I would really like to see that on distributions that do not offer upgrade to packages just updates to address security issues and such. What if I'm running a custom config kernel as well for example? That mean recompiling of another upgraded kernel at least. It is most assuredly not a "one-liner" on most distributions to do so. It may be a one liner on a source based distro but they are however in the minority.

If you compile your custom kernels, then you'll have to update your kernel by hand.

But then you shouldn't talk about minorities.

Updating libdrm, mesa and xf86-video-ati is a one-liner on every sane distribution out there. Kernel can be included too, if you use one provided by your distro.

[deanjo]

If you compile your custom kernels, then you'll have to update your kernel by hand.

Why should I have to upgrade a perfectly working kernel just to add or fix a graphics issue/feature? That is just plain dumb.

But then you shouldn't talk about minorities.

Updating libdrm, mesa and xf86-video-ati is a one-liner on every sane distribution out there. Kernel can be included too, if you use one provided by your distro.

BS, only rolling distos offer "upgrades" to the "latest and greatest" on a supported capacity. While they may have additional repositories available to use those repositories are often "unsupported" because they deviate from the base package versions from "officially supported" distribution release versions.

[pingufunkybeat]

Why should I have to upgrade a perfectly working kernel just to add or fix a graphics issue/feature? That is just plain dumb.

You do this to add CPU features, don't you?

BS, only rolling distos offer "upgrades" to the "latest and greatest" on a supported capacity. While they may have additional repositories available to use those repositories are often "unsupported" because they deviate from the base package versions from "officially supported" distribution release versions.

This goes for all software, not just drivers. If you want to use stuff not provided by the distro, you compile your own.

If you can do it for Firefox, why not for drivers? They are not some holy cow.

[deanjo]

You do this to add CPU features, don't you?

Nope, usually cpu features are complete before the CPU is ever released. The only feature that was not there by the time I purchased the cpu was the 'turbo boost' in my Phenom II 1090T and that was back ported into the older kernel as an update. It did not require upgrading a bunch of shit either.

This goes for all software, not just drivers. If you want to use stuff not provided by the distro, you compile your own.

If you can do it for Firefox, why not for drivers? They are not some holy cow.

Not really. Most of those non-base system packages do get upgrades as updates. Firefox for example upgrades whenever a new one is released, as does xine-lib, ffmpeg, T-bird, java, etc etc etc. No recompiling necessary. Hell most distros will even do it on the fly without any real user interaction and are officially supported.

[pingufunkybeat]

Not really. Most of those non-base system packages do get upgrades as updates.

Display drivers are as base-system as you can get.

If your distro makes it difficult to upgrade drivers, switch distros, you have so many choices. Far more than are supported by blobs.

[deanjo]

Display drivers are as base-system as you can get.

A display driver is just another device driver. You shouldn't be required to touch every damn lowlevel subsystem just to get a feature.

If your distro makes it difficult to upgrade drivers, switch distros, you have so many choices. Far more than are supported by blobs.

Why the hell would I give up a perfectly working solution in favor of a limited solution which is in a constant state of flux and in cases never support the functionality I need?

Using a free driver for me would be as useful as putting in a 5 1/4 floppy drive into my system.

[pingufunkybeat]

A display driver is just another device driver. You shouldn't be required to touch every damn lowlevel subsystem just to get a feature.

ALL device drivers are in the kernel. Including graphics. Your problem is with Linus and the kernel design. Take it up with them.

Why the hell would I give up a perfectly working solution in favor of a limited solution which is in a constant state of flux and in cases never support the functionality I need?

Don't change the topic.

Nobody asked you to change anything. Only to stop spreading FUD. Upgrading free drivers is a one-liner for most people. Glad we cleared that up.

Your problem with free drivers is not about features (which are still lagging, but improving). It's an irrational hate of free software fundamentals and a vast majority of all FLOSS developers. You're using the wrong operating system, mate.

Using a free driver for me would be as useful as putting in a 5 1/4 floppy drive into my system.

You can do better than a floppy drive. Come on, compare free drivers to Hitler. You know you want to

[deanjo]

ALL device drivers are in the kernel. Including graphics. Your problem is with Linus and the kernel design. Take it up with them.

Sure they are but video cards and perhaps sound cards are the only real items that require frequent changes to offer new support. Other devices are relatively simple devices and don't require changing a bunch of other shit in order to satisfy dependencies. If there is a new nic driver for example it doesn't require rebuilding the entire fucking TCP/IP stack.

Don't change the topic.

Nobody asked you to change anything. Only to stop spreading FUD. Upgrading free drivers is a one-liner for most people. Glad we cleared that up.

Your problem with free drivers is not about features (which are still lagging, but improving). It's an irrational hate of free software fundamentals and a vast majority of all FLOSS developers. You're using the wrong operating system, mate.

Not changing the subject all. In most distro's especially in the most commonly used ones upgrading of base packages is not a supported option. I'm not spreading any FUD at all. This is pure fact. I don't hate FLOSS development at all, but I'm not going to castrate my system or my needs for the sake of politics. I did not build a computer as a political statement, I bought it to use it and it's capabilities. I am not using the wrong operating system as it is presently filling all my needs with use of the blobs. If I was forced to use opensource solutions then indeed I would change OS's in a heartbeat not out of wants but necessity.

You can do better than a floppy drive. Come on, compare free drivers to Hitler. You know you want to

Can any of the free drivers fulfill my needs listed above? No they can't so they are indeed as useful as a 5 1/4 floppy (or even as useful Gila Monster plugged into the USB port).

[pingufunkybeat]

Your very unusual situation of having to run complex GPGPU stuff at maximum performance, while being forced to use Linux and the GNU toolchain, is hardly representative.

I've already told you in other discussions that you personally don't have much choice.

I'd still prefer Nvidia to release specs, so we can at least have full-featured drivers for the rest of us.